Most incredible invoice ever seen!

[EliteHeat]

Went to see an old MKII Netaheat 10-16 in Bayswater yesterday afternoon. The owner was complaining about the high cost of maintaining it and was interested in a combi conversion.

Anyway, when I asked him what he had previously paid for repairs he produced an invoice from last November for a 3-port valve head change for …. Wait for it … £846 (inc VAT)

The invoice stated the labour charge was £120 per hour or part hour, and they claimed to have spent 4 hours on diagnosing and sorting the problem out. This does not seem to add up – whatever way you look at it.

I suggested that he contact trading standards – anyone got any other ideas because frankly this is criminal.

By the way, does anyone have a spare gas valve for a 10-16 MKII?

 

[BoxBasher]

Know of someone that was charged £2900 for a new moled service pipe. About 15 metres - 2 pits, into suspended floors.

Wasn't even done to regs (or anywhere near regs). Took 6 inspections and 3 months of arguing with trading standards to get it right.

 

[Agile]

Those charges are normal for "call-out" companies!

The staff are mostly working on a commission basis and they spin out the job to make it very worthwhile for them. Spares are charged at double to tripple the actual cost. An hour is charged for going to get the part ( or pretending to if its already on the van! ). Staff are discouraged from carrying common spare parts like pumps!

All these companies quote their prices in advance and even get the customer to sign to agree before they start work.

Even in Bayswater with all the extra costs of the CC and parking, our charges would have been little more than a quarter of that amount but they choose to call the call-out firm in full knowledge of the costs involved and consequently I have little sympathy for them.

Tony

 

[EliteHeat]

I have little sympathy for them.

Tony

I do. He's just a youngster and left his dad in charge. Totally and completely ripped off. Mind you, living in Bayswater he can't be exactly poor.

Now, anyone got that GV? or anyone due to take out a 10-16?

 

[Agile]

Whilst we know that those kind of prices are three to four times what the independents would charge, they are nevertheless made clear at the time of the first telephone call.

The customer is always free to engage the call-out firm or an independent. It is one of the unfortunate facts of life than the large number of less capable people and a few cowboys makes calling someone from Yellow Pages be perceived as something of a lottery. The call-out firms have impressive looking adverts which imply they not only react fast but their "fully qualified engineers" are going to be second to none!

The call-out firms trade on the fact that their rip-off prices enable them to have engineers, often not very well experienced ones either, standing by to react fast to any calls from customers within the hour.

I do have sympathy for the many people in very ordinary jobs who are living in the central areas

Tony



PS Chris R often has a spare gas valve for a Netaheat and in any case will be removing his own boiler "this summer". Are you really sure its a failed valve though?

 

[EliteHeat]

Yep, mercury switch operates and switches 230V to valve - which then fails to do anything - so pilot chopped after 5 seconds or so.

 

[ChrisR]

Stock a bit low I'm afraid. I use a few. I did in desperation try the "wrong" solenoid once, and it's worked ever since. (Only had the valve with me at the time from which I'd given Tony the other solenoid!).
It seems to be the pilot one which goes.
Of course this is academic because the solenoids are "non replaceable"

 

[ollski]

I'm sure I got one in the shed...are they now scarce?

 

[EliteHeat]

I'm sure I got one in the shed...are they now scarce?

Not scarce - just trying not to rip his other arm off!

 

[Softus]

I suggested that he contact trading standards – anyone got any other ideas because frankly this is criminal.

It all rests on whether or not the rates were declared up front.

Despite whatever Agile thinks, we appear not to know whether or not that happened.

If they were declared then the customer has no recourse. If they weren't, then in theory the customer could claim a refund on the grounds that the charges were not reasonable as required by the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982, viz:

5 Implied term about consideration

1. Where, under a contract for the supply of a service, the
consideration for the service is not determined by the contract,
left to be determined in a manner agreed by the contract or
determined by the course of dealing between the parties, there
is an implied term that the party contracting with the supplier will
pay a reasonable charge.

2. What is a reasonable charge is a question of fact.

Most people don't want the grief of a court case, which is how some traders get away with overcharging.

 

[namsag]

Agile..Speaking of firms ripping people off and having no sympathy for them . You have said what you would charge for this job which is fitting a motorised valve head. You say you would be at just over £210 approx.
Yet you are always on here saying you first time fix and charge £84 plus parts at trade prices. Can you tell me what motorised valve head costs at least £126 or are you falsley marking up part prices to make more money out of gullible customers.

 

[Softus]

namsag, to be fair to Agile, you haven't allowed for the CC and the cost of parking.

However, even allowing a total of £26 for those, it's gonna be a delight to see how Agile justifies £100 for a powerhead. Or was it simply a mistake made in the rush to display a lack of sympathy?

 

[kevplumb]

Can you tell me what motorised valve head costs at least £126

how much some herb is aving a girrafe

sits back and waits for the usual condecending crap

 

[Agile]

Like anyone else i cannot do jobs for free!

i avoid jobs in the CC and if i have to use metered parking add a bit extra to cover the inevitable penality notices which we all get from time to time.

i charge our diagnostic fee plus parts for dry parts ( pcbs fans etc. ) but sometimes a little extra for wet parts in boilers where there are isolating valves or i can drain boiler easily.

Where i have to drain a system to replace a TRV or motor valve i charge £60 extra. I would expect it might take about two hours.

So in this case i would have charged:-

Diagnostic 84
CC & meters 26
Valve 55
Draindown 60

Total £225

If i could change the motor only then it would have been 84 + 26 +34.

I rarely change the whole head as if its worn out the the gland is likely to be well worn as well and we would usually replace the whole valve. We dont like go-backs and dont usually get any.

For a repair in an inner London area I thinks thats very reasonable. However there are many others who would do it at a similar price and the East Europeans would be about £120.

I dont understand why everyone is so interested in my charges but what would you charge Namsag ?

Tony

 

[kevplumb]

So in this case i would have charged:-

Diagnostic 84
CC & meters 26
Valve 55
Draindown 60

Total £225

robbing bastard you should have a stripey jumper and a mask