new meter has no off-switch

[JohnW2]

What do you mean "If he did"? If he did, he would. If I didn't know better, I would think you were just being mischievous.

No, it was a perfectly genuine question, which only becomes mischevious if you're feeling guilty! What I meant by "if he did?" was that, before the SP issue was raised, you were implying that having a meter with an isolator 'saved' you from having to arrange those visits - so you would not have had to arrange them!

Whatever, I have to say on the few occasions (none recently) I've seen a DNO person called out to 'isolate' an installation whilst work was done on it, I'm pretty sure that they have merely pulled the fuse, and left the neutral untouched. For true isolation, they obviously should disconnect the neutral as well - is that what they do routinely these days?

Kind Regards, John

 

[RF Lighting]

You might find this an interesting read John. Hopefully the photo has come out ok.

 

[JohnW2]

You might find this an interesting read John. Hopefully the photo has come out ok.

Thanks. On the face of it, it sounds as if the ESC left it too late to say their piece - after the meters has been specified, designed and manufactured, and roll-out had started. Do you know if they made similar representations before the smart meters were specified?

Kind Regards, John.

 

[EFLImpudence]

No, it was a perfectly genuine question,

Yes, of course.

which only becomes mischevious if you're feeling guilty!

I wouldn't call it guilty.

What I meant by "if he did?" was that, before the SP issue was raised, you were implying that having a meter with an isolator 'saved' you from having to arrange those visits - so you would not have had to arrange them!

You can also access the terminals after 'switching off', i.e. if technically not isolating.

Whatever, I have to say on the few occasions (none recently) I've seen a DNO person called out to 'isolate' an installation whilst work was done on it, I'm pretty sure that they have merely pulled the fuse, and left the neutral untouched. For true isolation, they obviously should disconnect the neutral as well - is that what they do routinely these days?

No.



Re: RF's post

So, 'common' sense from the ECA etc.

However, still scarce in Westminster.

 

[westie101]

I've seen a DNO person called out to 'isolate' an installation whilst work was done on it, I'm pretty sure that they have merely pulled the fuse, and left the neutral untouched. For true isolation, they obviously should disconnect the neutral as well - is that what they do routinely these days?

That's one of those differences!
We do not under any circumstances need to disconnect the neutral for isolation at 230/400V and on modern distribution equipment are unable to

 

[JohnW2]

That's one of those differences! We do not under any circumstances need to disconnect the neutral for isolation at 230/400V ....

That's a pretty definitive answer!

and on modern distribution equipment are unable to ...

I don't quite get that. Are you simply saying that you can't disconnect the incoming supply from the service head or whatever you call it, with some modern systems? In the context we're discussing, all that would be needed would be to disconnect the connection to the meter, and that you surely could do (otherwise how would meters ever get installed, changed or moved? )

Kind Regards, John.

 

[westie101]

As regards the service head, yes we can physically disconnect the neutral, on other points of the underground system we can't

 

[JohnW2]

As regards the service head, yes we can physically disconnect the neutral, on other points of the underground system we can't

Fair enough, but the discussion here obviously related to the consumer's side of the service head.

So, just to be clear, if an electrician calls out DNO personnel to 'isolate' a supply so that (s)he can safely work on the consumer's end of the outgoing meter tails (or beyond), the '(wo)man from the DNO' would simply pull the cutout fuse and make the cutout safe? (that's certainly what I've seen done).

Kind Regards, John.

 

[westie101]

So, just to be clear, if an electrician calls out DNO personnel to 'isolate' a supply so that (s)he can safely work on the consumer's end of the outgoing meter tails (or beyond), the '(wo)man from the DNO' would simply pull the cutout fuse and make the cutout safe? (that's certainly what I've seen done).

Unless specifically asked to do otherwise, yes.

 

[JohnW2]

So, just to be clear, if an electrician calls out DNO personnel to 'isolate' a supply so that (s)he can safely work on the consumer's end of the outgoing meter tails (or beyond), the '(wo)man from the DNO' would simply pull the cutout fuse and make the cutout safe? (that's certainly what I've seen done).

Unless specifically asked to do otherwise, yes.

Ah! Does that mean that if you were specifically asked to also disconnect the neutral connection to the meter, you would do that (and reconnect it when you replaced the cutout fuse)? If so, do you know if DNO personnel often get asked to do that?

Kind Regards, John.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

N is a live conductor.

Correct, of course.

Work on or near live conductors
14. No person shall be engaged in any work activity on or so near any live conductor (other than one suitably covered with insulating material so as to prevent danger) that danger may arise unless–

(a)it is unreasonable in all the circumstances for it to be dead; and .
(b)it is reasonable in all the circumstances for him to be at work on or near it while it is live; and .
(c)suitable precautions (including where necessary the provision of suitable protective equipment) are taken to prevent injury. .

 

[EFLImpudence]

Then let's hope the ESC, ENA, AMO, ECA, ELECSA, SELECT, NAPIT and NICEIC are successful.

 

[JohnW2]

Then let's hope the ESC, ENA, AMO, ECA, ELECSA, SELECT, NAPIT and NICEIC are successful.

Yes, but there are only two of the 'options' under consideration which relate to the meter - option 1 gives you only SP 'isolation' and option 2 may only give you SP isolation - so it might not be quite what you'd like, even if they are successful!

Kind Regards, John.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Yes, but there are only two of the 'options' under consideration which relate to the meter - option 1 gives you only SP 'isolation' and option 2 may only give you SP isolation - so it might not be quite what you'd like, even if they are successful!

But that is all you get by pulling the fuse.

So if the live can be switched off easily/safely/'legally' then, surely, that would be a satisfactory improvement to the present situation.

If required (although what would be the point?) a DP isolation switch could be installed easily/safely/'legally'.

 

[JohnW2]

But that is all you get by pulling the fuse. So if the live can be switched off easily/safely/'legally' then, surely, that would be a satisfactory improvement to the present situation.

Indeed, I agree totally - but it wasn't me who started the fuss about SP 'isolation' not being proper isolation

If required (although what would be the point?) a DP isolation switch could be installed easily/safely/'legally'.

Agreed - but, again, it would seem that some would say that when you were fitting that DP isolator (with only SP isolation at the time), you had not worked 'safely'.

I suspect I know what most of us (including me) think about this discussion.

Kind Regards, John.