No bellcast on house that has render on top floor

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our house is a detached house two storey house with render on the top half and brick on the bottom. There is a brick decorative ledge separating the two floors it sticks out about an inch. The render has been taken to the brick ledge but no bellcast put in , this means that the rain water will run down onto the brick ledge and either pool there or soak into the brick ledge. There are small gaps between the render and the brick ledge, I imagine that the water will run into them and then soak up into the render behind the paint, causing problems in the future. I am wondering if I am worrying too much, or if I am right to worry, then how can this fault be remedied. I am due to sign off the job in the next few days and I am being told that this situation is ok, but I don't think it is. Sorry no pics but if they are needed I can get some. Thanks for any replies
 
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Ok the full story is. The house is 110 years old, the top half had two renders on it and bricks on the bottom half, separated by a decorative ledge two courses thick. It is cavity wall.

The renders were, an original rough cast that was covered by a thick layer of render that was like a badly iced Christmas cake, a bit like giant aertex badly applied, however it did have a bell cast.

When these renders were hacked off, the wall was found to be in a very poor condition, many bricks had moved the mortar was crumbling away and there were no lintels over the windows.

We got a bricklayer to secure the structure of the building mortaring in the bricks where necessary, put in lintels and generally make good.

We then have had two different renderers on the project; the first applied a slurry coat with SBR and put wire mesh around the building, this stopped further damage to the mortar and bricks.

Then there was a dispute about number of days required to finish the job and another renderer was engaged.

The second renderer applied the scratch and topcoat.

The brick ledge going round the building has about 20 bricks missing, these are in the top course of the two courses.

Before the scratch coat was applied I asked for these to replaced and all mortar made good, the project manager told me that this was unnecessary as this could be done after the render was applied and painted. So the work continued.

I have gone up on the scaffolding every day and only recently started worrying about the finish, as the project manager mentioned that he wanted to get the scaffolding down.

So I asked about the bell cast and the missing bricks and the overall finish as I thought there was still quite a lot to be done, he replied that a bell cast was not required as the house was originally designed without one.

This prompted me to get reading about rendering and looking at other houses around which all seem to have bell casts.

I have posted some pictures,

1. A section of the wall showing an undamaged part of the ledge, the wood is a scaffolding plank, it clearly shows no bell cast.

2. A bit at the side of the house where there is a clear gap between the mortar and the ledge, there are about twenty of these mainly smaller.

3. Rendering around the flashing on the conservatory

4. A missing brick in the ledge, top course

5. A section with two or three missing bricks, the scaffolding goes right up to it, the reason for these bricks not being replaced I suspect.

Current position is that I was with the project manager this morning, he suggested putting a ’fillet’ my word round the building and painting it in.

I said this was unacceptable and that I wanted a proper bell cast put on, and that all missing bricks should be replaced in the ledge and all mortar made good before work on the bell cast was to start.

I also said that this needed to be painted in and then a final coat of paint applied to the house to ensure a clean finish.

The project manger suggested getting the renderer who did the work back to fix it, an offer I refused, saying that I wanted someone else.

I guess my questions are,

1 Can a bell cast be added on here?

2 If it can, can it be applied onto the paint if it is keyed or does the render need to be hacked back?

3 Am I right in insisting that brick ledge is made good before work starts on the bell cast, if indeed it can be added?

4 Is this a big job? Say more than 5 days or less?


As I am writing this I know in my heart of hearts that this is a poor finish, I have been financing the project as it goes along, but I do have a fair sum held back.

The rest of the rendering is good, although the beading at the corners had their edges showing after the top coat was applied, these are white and after painting they are not noticeable and do give a straight edge.

I am at a loss to understand why the bottom of the render is so bad, as i am sure he could have done it much better if he had wanted to.

I want to get the job finished to a good standard but don’t want to get to a place where we get into a total breakdown of relations.

So working with the project manager to get the job done is my preferred route.

Please forgive me if I have been using the wrong names for things, I am not in the building trade and am trying to learn about this as fast as I can.

Also when I say project manager, he is a small builder using sub contractors to do the work.
 

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I tried to edit the post again, on then size of the job, the house is 12 metres at each side, with one side being mainly window.
 
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The work is so bad at the bottom because they cut corners the bricks should have been replaced , I don't think there is any need for a bellcast bead as a matter of fact I drove past some similar houses today exactly the same as yours with no bellcast
 
Thanks Steve,

Could I ask, the water falls to the ledge, the brick gets soaked, the water goes through the brick running down the inside of the cavity. I think.

As the brick get waterlogged will the water not be sucked up by the render behind the paint as well as running down behind the wall?

Or am I completely wrong
 
I don't think that any of that will happen but if you wanted a bellcast bead you should have asked for one, just as a thought there is enough lip on that ledge to create a bellcast without using a bead is there not?
 
Yes there is, and that is the plan.

On asking for one, there was one before and the agreement was hack off and replace , so i thought that meant replace the render with a bell cast not replace without one. Also all the houses around me that are rendered have one, there is not a single house without one so i don't think I'm being unreasonable.

I also paid for all the unexpected stabilisation at cost plus 20% for the builder, again both trying to be fair.

Thanks for the reply i appreciate it.
 
What your photos show is mostly wrong.
Reference the brick ledge: first all brick re-newal and re-pointing should be done & then a fillet of sand & cement should have been laid and then covered by lead flashings recessed into a brick bed & drooped out over the ledge to shed water away from the wall.
Best practice would then have a Bellcast fixed above the flashings and the render brought down to the Bellcast.

A Bellcast is an obvious requirement for the job - for most render jobs come to think of it. As a general rule why should you as a householder have to request one or even know about one? Are you expected to specify the type of sand or the height of the scaff lifts?


The "cavity trays" in photos 3 & 5 are well wrong. Great dollops of sand and cement and lack of stepped custom made cavity trays. This aspect was wrong before any render work. Do you have photos of the whole elevation and above the conservatory?

Landing the scaff lift at the ledge was foolish - they are in their own way.

I wonder if the outer skin of bricks and the thick upper render was applied previously because the original brick facings were in such a bad way?

What i can see of the render it looks fine.
What kind of paint was used?
 
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Thanks for the reply Vinn.

On the bell cast, the common practise on the houses around me is to render flaring out to the evade of the brick ledge. So i would be happy with that.

I am only learning about bell casts after the event and looking at what i consider to be poor finish at the bottom of the render. It does seem to me now that the bricks and mortar in the ledge haven't been fixed because of the scaffolding.

The bricks were very poor under the render, however the first layer of render was a rough cast one, and you can still see that on some of the houses around me, these ones have a bell cast to just before the outer edge of the ledge. I think these would have been original, or perhaps put on in the 1930's when other houses around us were built and had rough cast put on.

On the icing cake rendering, it was done over 30 years ago ( i know the guy whom i bought the house off and he was in it 10 years ), i have no idea why that was put on.

The house has had 4 coats of Sandtex smooth masonry paint the first one thinned with water.

I will get some more photos later in the day
 
A Bellcast alone wont be wide enough to shed water beyond the brick ledge. The Bellcast should be fixed to the bare brickwork.
First, as mentioned above, you must have a cover flashing.
Google the widest Bellcasts available - 60mm plus if possible in plastic or SS.
 
Steve...thank you for these , they have helped put my mind to rest, I met with the project manager today and i am confident that we will get to here we need to be, probably with a triangular fillet along the ledge, but still to be agreed.

The double brick ledge on some of the houses is exactly the same as mine, so i think all will be well.

The real problem has been a lack of understanding of the situation from both of us, he has not told me in a way i understood what was going on, and i have made the issue bigger than it really is because I don't have he knowledge that he has. And, he has not tried to see where i am coming from, as I have spent many thousands of pounds and am worried that I will end up with a bad job being done.

And as he cut a corner by not getting the bricks and the mortar fixed before rendering,( which I could see quite clearly) it led me to mistrust what was happening, if he had just been honest about what he was doing then i would have been OK.

Thanks again

Over and out
 

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