LOL !
I'll do my best...
I'll do my best...
No power getting to a Baxi boiler
- Thread starter Pearlyman
- Start date
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I have to go out now - emergency job.
OK - no worries.
You can take a look at these when you get back - hopefully they will be good enough to meet your needs...
View media item 66657 View media item 66656 View media item 66655
You can take a look at these when you get back - hopefully they will be good enough to meet your needs...
View media item 66657 View media item 66656 View media item 66655
Thanks for the pictures.
However, I feel this has become too difficult from afar.
I am unsure which wire is the other end of what and feel further advice could result in damage or even danger.
Were I there I would just disconnect every wire and start again.
It's not that difficult if you want to try.
Get a straight piece of ten connector blocks and number one to ten.
Then, looking at the diagram, for example, take the cable from the boiler and connect to the appropriate connectors - 2, 3 &10.
Then the cable from one valve and do the same and so on.
Or, of course an electrician.
It won't cost that much and be far quicker than the time already spent.
However, I feel this has become too difficult from afar.
I am unsure which wire is the other end of what and feel further advice could result in damage or even danger.
Were I there I would just disconnect every wire and start again.
It's not that difficult if you want to try.
Get a straight piece of ten connector blocks and number one to ten.
Then, looking at the diagram, for example, take the cable from the boiler and connect to the appropriate connectors - 2, 3 &10.
Then the cable from one valve and do the same and so on.
Or, of course an electrician.
It won't cost that much and be far quicker than the time already spent.
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I think you are probably right in your summary…
In truth, I never imagined the situation we have found. I assumed that I had simply got a wire in the wrong connection and you would be able to point out which one.
Ofcourse, that is still the most likely cause of the problem – but because the installation seems so non standard, you haven’t got a hope of telling me what I’ve done wrong…
Though I am tempted to have a go at it myself, I think it makes more sense to try and find an electrician (I have already tried – but I’ll try harder !).
My issue is, for example, that you say to connect the cable from the boiler to connectors 2,3 and 10 – but I don’t believe that the cable from the boiler goes into the main wiring box (it just goes into the timer).
As was the case last time, this has been a tremendous education – and I thank you for that. You can’t beat real life experience for learning !
Out of interest, do you now have any idea how the boiler was working in the first place – or is that still a mystery to you…?
In truth, I never imagined the situation we have found. I assumed that I had simply got a wire in the wrong connection and you would be able to point out which one.
Ofcourse, that is still the most likely cause of the problem – but because the installation seems so non standard, you haven’t got a hope of telling me what I’ve done wrong…
Though I am tempted to have a go at it myself, I think it makes more sense to try and find an electrician (I have already tried – but I’ll try harder !).
My issue is, for example, that you say to connect the cable from the boiler to connectors 2,3 and 10 – but I don’t believe that the cable from the boiler goes into the main wiring box (it just goes into the timer).
As was the case last time, this has been a tremendous education – and I thank you for that. You can’t beat real life experience for learning !
Out of interest, do you now have any idea how the boiler was working in the first place – or is that still a mystery to you…?
Only insofar as you say the Brown wire in the Timer CHon goes to the boiler.
Therefore when CHon is selected power will go to the boiler but it would not be controlled in any way other than the timer.
Whether someone has switched the Neutral or done something else I cannot tell.
Good luck.
Therefore when CHon is selected power will go to the boiler but it would not be controlled in any way other than the timer.
Whether someone has switched the Neutral or done something else I cannot tell.
Good luck.
I’ve been giving things some thought – and I think I have made an error in my description of the set-up…
I kept thinking about your wiring diagram and the 10 connection blocks – and the fact that I saw 7 cables going into my main wiring box but could only account for 5 of them…
The 2 that I couldn’t account for were both grey sheathed 4 core cables – just like the ones that go into the main power supply switch and the room stat..!
I now think that the room stat actually goes to the main wiring box – and not the power supply switch. I can only apologise for misleading you over this…
If that is the case, then everything makes a lot more sense…
The power supply switch obviously goes to the main wiring box – along with the timer (which does so indirectly, via the power supply switch pattress).
The only component that doesn’t go to the main wiring box directly is the boiler (which goes via the timer – as I said previously).
I now believe that the set-up is as follows:
Power supply switch
N load - Blue (wiring box) and blue (timer)
N feed - Blue ring main x 2
L load - Red (wiring box) and brown (timer)
L feed - Brown ring main x 2
Earth - Earth ring main x 2, earth (wiring box), single earth wire (timer)
Timer
1. Earth - Single yellow wire (power supply switch)
2. Neutral - Brown (power supply switch)
3. Live - Blue (power supply switch) and blue (boiler)
4. HW Off - Nothing
5. CH Off - Nothing
6. HW On - Red (wiring box) and brown (boiler)
7. CH On - Yellow (wiring box)
Connection block linking blue (wiring box) and yellow/green (boiler)
I don’t know if things now makes perfect sense (I suspect they make more sense – though whether they make enough sense is a different matter !) – and I don’t expect you to put any more time into this (you’ve already spent long enough on it). However, I felt I had to tell you my new thinking, in case the set-up was driving you mad (which is hopefully not the case !!)
I kept thinking about your wiring diagram and the 10 connection blocks – and the fact that I saw 7 cables going into my main wiring box but could only account for 5 of them…
The 2 that I couldn’t account for were both grey sheathed 4 core cables – just like the ones that go into the main power supply switch and the room stat..!
I now think that the room stat actually goes to the main wiring box – and not the power supply switch. I can only apologise for misleading you over this…
If that is the case, then everything makes a lot more sense…
The power supply switch obviously goes to the main wiring box – along with the timer (which does so indirectly, via the power supply switch pattress).
The only component that doesn’t go to the main wiring box directly is the boiler (which goes via the timer – as I said previously).
I now believe that the set-up is as follows:
Power supply switch
N load - Blue (wiring box) and blue (timer)
N feed - Blue ring main x 2
L load - Red (wiring box) and brown (timer)
L feed - Brown ring main x 2
Earth - Earth ring main x 2, earth (wiring box), single earth wire (timer)
Timer
1. Earth - Single yellow wire (power supply switch)
2. Neutral - Brown (power supply switch)
3. Live - Blue (power supply switch) and blue (boiler)
4. HW Off - Nothing
5. CH Off - Nothing
6. HW On - Red (wiring box) and brown (boiler)
7. CH On - Yellow (wiring box)
Connection block linking blue (wiring box) and yellow/green (boiler)
I don’t know if things now makes perfect sense (I suspect they make more sense – though whether they make enough sense is a different matter !) – and I don’t expect you to put any more time into this (you’ve already spent long enough on it). However, I felt I had to tell you my new thinking, in case the set-up was driving you mad (which is hopefully not the case !!)
I know that I suggested I would let go of this (and I am trying to source an electrician) – but I can’t !
A couple of days ago, I was happy in my blissful ignorance of the set-up, just trying to copy what was previously there – but now I am trying to understand it (thanks for that EFL !!).
Having had my ‘eureka’ moment last night, I am now of the opinion that the room stat and power supply switch are correctly connected. The central wiring box hasn’t changed – so that must also be OK.
I am therefore left with the timer/boiler as the sole possible issue…
Having done a little more research, I believe that the live and neutral in the timer are interchangeable - which presumably explains the way they are connected.
Reading the installation manual for my boiler, it states that it doesn’t require a permanent live (just a switch live) – which would therefore explain that connection.
As a consequence of all this, I am now struggling to see what is wrong !
Clearly there is a problem, as no power is getting to the boiler – and the power supply switch fused when the British Gas engineer manually moved the valve – but I don’t know what it might be…
Like I say, I am trying to source an electrician – but in the meantime, if anyone does have any ideas, I would be happy to hear them…
A couple of days ago, I was happy in my blissful ignorance of the set-up, just trying to copy what was previously there – but now I am trying to understand it (thanks for that EFL !!).
Having had my ‘eureka’ moment last night, I am now of the opinion that the room stat and power supply switch are correctly connected. The central wiring box hasn’t changed – so that must also be OK.
I am therefore left with the timer/boiler as the sole possible issue…
Having done a little more research, I believe that the live and neutral in the timer are interchangeable - which presumably explains the way they are connected.
Reading the installation manual for my boiler, it states that it doesn’t require a permanent live (just a switch live) – which would therefore explain that connection.
As a consequence of all this, I am now struggling to see what is wrong !
Clearly there is a problem, as no power is getting to the boiler – and the power supply switch fused when the British Gas engineer manually moved the valve – but I don’t know what it might be…
Like I say, I am trying to source an electrician – but in the meantime, if anyone does have any ideas, I would be happy to hear them…
I’ve tried 3 more electricians today – but I’ve had no joy (too busy/don’t do that kind of work/on holiday).
I’m in danger of just having to work my way through the yellow pages – and that doesn’t sit comfortably (as I could end up getting some cowboy).
What is more frustrating, is that after hours of staring at EFLs ‘S’ plan wiring diagram and comparing it to my own set-up, I honestly think I could get my system working…
My wiring box seems to mirror the wiring diagram exactly (maybe not surprisingly), so I really only have to work out how to connect the timer and boiler…
I think I’ve figured that out – but what troubles me, is that my solution is quite different from the photos that I took before the work was carried out.
Ofcourse, if I ever do manage to get an electrician, I doubt he will be interested in the photos – so maybe I shouldn’t worry about it !
Currently, junction 10 in the wiring centre is going to the earth in the boiler. My plan would be to change that to the boiler live…
To enable that to happen, I would connect the boiler earth, to the earth in the timer and disconnect the boiler live from HW ON in the timer…
That would be the extent of the changes I would make (though I might also change round live and neutral in the timer, as they contradict the labelling on the timer).
It doesn’t sound a lot – but obviously, moving to live, something that is currently going to earth, is quite a big thing to do !
The only concern in my mind, is caused by the fact that my boiler uses a switched live and not a permanent live – and whether the ‘S’ plan wiring diagram is OK with that…
So what should I do ? Make the changes I have suggested – or keep trying to find an electrician (almost regardless of who I can get !)…?
I’m in danger of just having to work my way through the yellow pages – and that doesn’t sit comfortably (as I could end up getting some cowboy).
What is more frustrating, is that after hours of staring at EFLs ‘S’ plan wiring diagram and comparing it to my own set-up, I honestly think I could get my system working…
My wiring box seems to mirror the wiring diagram exactly (maybe not surprisingly), so I really only have to work out how to connect the timer and boiler…
I think I’ve figured that out – but what troubles me, is that my solution is quite different from the photos that I took before the work was carried out.
Ofcourse, if I ever do manage to get an electrician, I doubt he will be interested in the photos – so maybe I shouldn’t worry about it !
Currently, junction 10 in the wiring centre is going to the earth in the boiler. My plan would be to change that to the boiler live…
To enable that to happen, I would connect the boiler earth, to the earth in the timer and disconnect the boiler live from HW ON in the timer…
That would be the extent of the changes I would make (though I might also change round live and neutral in the timer, as they contradict the labelling on the timer).
It doesn’t sound a lot – but obviously, moving to live, something that is currently going to earth, is quite a big thing to do !
The only concern in my mind, is caused by the fact that my boiler uses a switched live and not a permanent live – and whether the ‘S’ plan wiring diagram is OK with that…
So what should I do ? Make the changes I have suggested – or keep trying to find an electrician (almost regardless of who I can get !)…?
Hang on.
As in, wait..?
OK - if you really think it is too risky for me to make the change, I will.
At least for another day or two (or until the weather turns cold again
)
Good
Good. Make absolutely certain.
They may have used the earth wire as a live.
This is very wrong.
Remove the Brown from the Timer CHon and find the other end of it.
It should not be in CHon so you may be able to use it and put the earth wire in its proper place. See if it goes to the boiler Live. It may be that earth which is connected to the Blue at the switch.
Can you tell from the colour and style of the Brown from CHon which wire it is at the wiring box? Let me know.
Yes change them round.
Yes, see below.
The S plan only uses a switch live. Switched by either of the valves.
This is all you should have at the Switch, Timer and Boiler.
I have noticed -
At the wiring box - the two Oranges (10) connect to Blue.
This Blue should go to the live on the boiler - it may do.
However the Live from the pump should also connect to here.
Where does the pump Live go at the moment?
At the wiring box - the two Oranges (10) connect to Blue.
This Blue should go to the live on the boiler - it may do.
However the Live from the pump should also connect to here.
Where does the pump Live go at the moment?
EFL, you are a star
I can only thank you for coming back on and taking the time to go through this again.
I realise I must have lost a lot of credibility when I mistook the connection from the wiring box for the connection from the room stat – but at the time, I had no understanding of the set-up and was just trying to tell you what I could see (though I made the error of assuming the room stat was connected to the power supply, because the cables looked the same and I didn’t know the wiring box even existed !).
Anyway, I will digest and check out everything you have said.
From my initial read, all you have written confirms what I thought – but I will double check everything.
As I said in my post last night, my biggest issue with all this is that I’m going to end up having things wired significantly different to what my photos show. I’ve racked my brain over how this could possibly happen (as you say, if the Y/G has been hijacked for another use for example) – but I just can’t find an explanation that sits comfortably with me.
Ultimately, I think I’m going to have to let the photos go and move on…
I’ll come back to you later in the day with confirmation/questions – I just wanted to express my thanks first.
I can only thank you for coming back on and taking the time to go through this again.
I realise I must have lost a lot of credibility when I mistook the connection from the wiring box for the connection from the room stat – but at the time, I had no understanding of the set-up and was just trying to tell you what I could see (though I made the error of assuming the room stat was connected to the power supply, because the cables looked the same and I didn’t know the wiring box even existed !).
Anyway, I will digest and check out everything you have said.
From my initial read, all you have written confirms what I thought – but I will double check everything.
As I said in my post last night, my biggest issue with all this is that I’m going to end up having things wired significantly different to what my photos show. I’ve racked my brain over how this could possibly happen (as you say, if the Y/G has been hijacked for another use for example) – but I just can’t find an explanation that sits comfortably with me.
Ultimately, I think I’m going to have to let the photos go and move on…
I’ll come back to you later in the day with confirmation/questions – I just wanted to express my thanks first.
OK - to answer your questions:
The brown is actually in HW on (along with a black - which goes to the wiring box. There is just a black in CH on - which also goes to the wiring box).
The brown in HW on goes to the live in the boiler (it's not a great photo, but it you look carefully, you can see the brown is part of the while cable that comes out of the bottom of the timer).
The blacks in the timer go to 4 and 6 in the wiring box - as you would expect.
The blue connected to the 2 oranges, is the one that you can see connected to the Y/G in the power supply pattress !
It then goes across to the timer, where it is connected via a connection block to the Y/G for the boiler !
The brown from the pump also goes into 10 - as you would expect...
Basically, the 2 points you have raised above, are the 2 things I would look to change...
I would change the routing so that the blue from 10 in the wiring box connected to the live in the boiler (not the earth).
I would then connect the earth from the boiler to the earth in the timer...
It's a very simple change - but it will turn round the connections completely - and I'll end up with something that looks very different to the photos...
The brown is actually in HW on (along with a black - which goes to the wiring box. There is just a black in CH on - which also goes to the wiring box).
The brown in HW on goes to the live in the boiler (it's not a great photo, but it you look carefully, you can see the brown is part of the while cable that comes out of the bottom of the timer).
The blacks in the timer go to 4 and 6 in the wiring box - as you would expect.
The blue connected to the 2 oranges, is the one that you can see connected to the Y/G in the power supply pattress !
It then goes across to the timer, where it is connected via a connection block to the Y/G for the boiler !
The brown from the pump also goes into 10 - as you would expect...
Basically, the 2 points you have raised above, are the 2 things I would look to change...
I would change the routing so that the blue from 10 in the wiring box connected to the live in the boiler (not the earth).
I would then connect the earth from the boiler to the earth in the timer...
It's a very simple change - but it will turn round the connections completely - and I'll end up with something that looks very different to the photos...
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