Noisy shower&basin pump

[Aramis]

I've recently had a Stuart Turner showermate 1.5 Bar pump installed and it sounds like an electric drill in the airing cupboard whenever it's working. It is worse for basin than for shower. This is my first ever experience of a shower pump.

I can find advice on these forums saying to just build it into a soundproof box. But surely that becomes a bit dangerous because the pump (all pumps?) get quite hot quite quickly?

Anyway, I've been back to Stuart Turner just to see what they had to say about their noisy pump and I told them it was going to be replaced. They sent an engineer out for free who said a couple of mildly interesting things and I wondered what your thoughts are on the matter:

1. Their pump emits its worst screeching noise when using the basin tap. Engineer said the pump was doing more work pushing water through the modern narrow pipework under our basin and so any other pump was likely to do the same. Is this true?

2. Some manufacturers - he was careful not be drawn on any names - are so prescriptive on how their pump has to be installed that the guarantee is easily invalidated (because it is sometimes impossible to met every single requirement). Does anyone know what he means?

3. The pump was 60dB when standing on our landing with the airing cupboard door shut. It would have been much louder with the door open. Is this "normal"?

4. He cautioned against a soundproof box because he said the pump needs to be well ventilated.

I really do need to get this sorted (wife gave birth prematurely 2 days ago and we need our bathroom back) and so would appreciate any/all comments !!

 

[rssteve]

fit the pump in a small enclosure outsdie your house, you may want to put a small heater in the enclosure to stop freezing.

also have you tried the basin without the pump? i guess it aint great pressure or does it not even flow? all the points he said are true imo.

 

[Technotim]

I am supprised at the engineer not pointing out that the pump was a shower pump and it was not designed to pump to either hot or cold pipes individually,

With shower pumps they are designed to have both the hot and the cold side of the pump running at the same time.

15mm pumps like the one you have have too run twice as fast to create the flow rate you require for a shower and on top of that it is a regenerative pump and they are the noisiest types of pump.
you cannot insulate the pump as it requires air flow to keep the motor cool.

Sorry to give you the negatives.

Solution use a 22mm whole house pump of the centrifugal style with an air free device such as a techflange or essex flange one of the quietest products on the market is the QT45 twin with a bypass loop fitted.

that will help your baby sleep at night http://www.tapstore.com/acatalog/QT45BP_Whole_House_Pump_1_20bar.html

 

[Aramis]

I am supprised at the engineer not pointing out that the pump was a shower pump and it was not designed to pump to either hot or cold pipes individually,

With shower pumps they are designed to have both the hot and the cold side of the pump running at the same time.

15mm pumps like the one you have have too run twice as fast to create the flow rate you require for a shower and on top of that it is a regenerative pump and they are the noisiest types of pump.
you cannot insulate the pump as it requires air flow to keep the motor cool.

Sorry to give you the negatives.

That is amazing: I've done more digging since my first post and came up with exactly the above answers from two other sources so excellent that you have just confirmed the same story again. Thanks

My only other question - which no-one outside these forums has yet answered - is why on earth is there such a thing as a regenerative pump on the market? A pump making such a racket is, in my view, a con ! And yet there are still people out there who think Stuart Turner represents the Rolls Royce of pumps !

I've actually just ordered a Salamander RHP75 whole house pump (before I saw your message) and have my fingers crossed....

 

[Technotim]

Stuart Turner are good pumps with there brass ended products there motors are great they have been going for a very long time in fact they used to make motor bikes in the early 1900's,

Plumbers love them (there brass ended ones) as they are simple to fit and last even when they are installed correctly, they are good for showers and whole house situations also for negative head situations such as loft conversions.

But they are not quiet, (even the brass ended ones) they are a commercial company trying to compete in a market that has changed rapidly and therefore make cheap pumps there 15mm ranges to use there very good reputation to sell tat.

Little warning do not use a Surrey flange or even salamanders brand S flange as they have such a small outlet bore internally use a techflange or an essex flange the supply the hot water from the cylinder, make sure that the temp of the cylinder is keep no more than 60 degrees, and prime the pump of any air before turning the electrics on for the first time.

Salamanders reputation is leaking pumps and blaming the installation when an engineer visits, so follow the instructions to the letter.....

 

[Aramis]

Many thanks again Technotim for those top tips !

 

[Aramis]

Just found an issue - the copper pipes leading to the shower and basin are 15mm whereas the Salamander connection pipes in the box are 22mm.

How do I get over this ? I had missed the 15mm v 22mm in Technotim's previous post...

 

[theoutlaw]

Fit compression reducers 15mm-22mm are about £4.00 each from a plumbing supplies shop.

Tony

 

[Aramis]

Thanks and that doesn't invalidate warranty or cause some other mechanical/pressure problem ?

You can tell I'm a novice at this stuff !

 

[theoutlaw]

You would have to check the correct installation info against the warrenty.
I have used reducers before because most inlets on the pump are 22mm and the outlets are as well but the mixer usually has 15mm inlet.

Tony

 

[Technotim]

Just found an issue - the copper pipes leading to the shower and basin are 15mm whereas the Salamander connection pipes in the box are 22mm.

How do I get over this ? I had missed the 15mm v 22mm in Technotim's previous post...

You will need to have as much 22mm as poss in the supply line and tee off to the shower or basin which ever is first in 15mm for the guarantee.

Really the last 2 meters to each outlet should be 15mm.

Do not reduce immediately after the pump as this will add noise and invalidate the guarantee.
Try to use a swept bend as your first elbow not a 90 degree(not essential).

The motor on that pump is a Induction motor so technically it does not hurt it to have a restriction on the outlet, but I do not know any company's as fussy as Salamander when it comes to there engineers being called out if there is a problem.

 

[Aramis]

Many thanks again to both