Odd question about foundations but quite relevant to this project

[Neo Cortex]

Do you need 1m foundations?

Trenches left open for long periods have the risk of collapse, also the bottoms soften and the ground swells and this makes the building settle more or settle unevenly afterwards.

Have a rethink of your cunning plan.

Not a good idea to plywood it up then? I would prefer to do it bit by bit over time as that way I can gradually get rid of the muck that comes out. Its in a difficult place to get rid of the soil that comes out so this is preferred. A digger isn't really suitable here for this reason.

 

[Neo Cortex]

Do you need 1m foundations?

Trenches left open for long periods have the risk of collapse, also the bottoms soften and the ground swells and this makes the building settle more or settle unevenly afterwards.

Have a rethink of your cunning plan.

I had an initial chat with the inspector. He said to the pilot hole to 1m and he will advise based on what he sees and the design etc

 

[Neo Cortex]

How much is ££££££ to you?

concrete + skips / muck away could be £1500 add on £500 for digger / dumper hire and you would be up to £2k. The bit you would be saving is the builders Labour + contingency + profit - have a work out how much that is

the problem with pricing groundworks for a builder is that all sorts of things can result in cost overuns, eg:

-unknown issue causes digging to be paused half way through meaning builder has to off hire plant
-skip no show causing double handling
- concrete delivery no show meaning paying lads on site to do nothing

So builders have to put on a decent margin or they easily lose money.

Maybe see if you could find a local ”man with digger” he would do it in a day. Or find a local groundswork specialist - they might give you a better price than the builder.

He wants £16k for the dig and concrete pour. The quote wasn't itemised so I don't know how much was on what etc.

 

[Neo Cortex]

Hiring a Digger is one thing, but tip it over, or hit a service, and suddenly all that money you think you've saved will be gone, and some more after it.

This is my point. I can manage extraction of 1m per week. Its the most cost effective option. But don't want things going wrong.

 

[cdbe]

Find out what your local options are for concrete - where I live we have barrow mix - I paid about £180 a cubic metre barrowed into the trench - work round this (and their minimum quantity) and how much you can excavate in a week (probably more than you think) forget about the spoil, get rid later. You might find you can manage in four separate digs/pours. Consider a traditional strip foundation (builders don't bother now because concrete is cheaper than labour for them). I did mine like this (about 18m but I had good ground and didn't need to go as deep) - 3m concrete (£550), a few hundred for blocks to get out of the ground, including some trench blocks which can be laid by anyone, Skips or grab for the spoil if you have space, you can backfill a bit in the trench if you build it up.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

Hiring a Digger is one thing, but tip it over, or hit a service, and suddenly all that money you think you've saved will be gone, and some more after it.

Any decent digger driver will have insurance and a scanner. The bloke I got in wanted me to hand-dig so he could see the two ends of the water pipe we knew was there.

There is no more risk if you cut out the middleman.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

£16k is a joke price, but who knows these days. Those deluxe pimped up pickup trucks cost a few quid. But he possibly wanted you to refuse as he didn't want the job.

Mini diggers can fit through a 1m gap, some less. The tracks slide inwards for moving then back out for stability. Usually if you can walk in then you can get a digger in.

The bloke I got in made a heap next to the site, then drove over it to the other side, relayed the heap further away, did this twice until it was where I wanted it, which was reachable for a grab lorry. Did all this in a day, including some really awkward bits. But then I found someone who had a tractor who wanted it.

 

[^woody^]

I had an initial chat with the inspector. He said to the pilot hole to 1m and he will advise based on what he sees and the design etc

Consider a raft foundation instead. That should solve your excavation and disposable problems.

And if this can be simply designed and agreed with your inspector - ie a simple slab and edge, less cost than strip foundations and floor.

 

[Neo Cortex]

Really it comes down to the age old Cost / Quality / Time triangle of project management. In this instance I have a major constraint on cost and literally need the cheapest option. It doesn't matter if it takes a long time but I cannot let the quality slide.

I don't mind putting in the work. My van can handle 1sqm per load.

I am thinking that I will proceed with plywood to prop up the opposing edges, hand digging it, hand removing the soil at 600mm x 1m per week and keep the whole patch dry with a big tarp.

I am interested to know thoughts on this and how I can make it work. Not any other solutions. This project is going nowhere this year unless I can find a way forward this way.

Appreciate your responses.

 

[oldbutnotdead]

16k for 24 metres of foundations? Either access is a nightmare or bloke who quoted doesn't really want the job.
Depending on the ground, yes you can do a hand dig but it'll hurt- worst part is having to dig the trench wider than needed so you can work in it.
Much much better to get a machine in. As above, a standard mini digger is easy enough to learn, long as you don't have nearby buildings to worry about. You can get micro diggers that can go through pretty much any domestic doorway.
First thing is dig your hole & get BCO to approve depth - if he wants deeper than a metre then hand digging would get very onerous.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

Don't even think about self-drive. Even if all goes smoothly it will probably take twice as long so cost more anyway. If it doesn't go smoothly then you'll definitely spend a lot more.

I paid £295 all-in for a very good driver, digger and fuel. All done in a day.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Any decent digger driver will have insurance and a scanner. The bloke I got in wanted me to hand-dig so he could see the two ends of the water pipe we knew was there.

There is no more risk if you cut out the middleman.

I was referring to an earlier suggestion of hiring a digger, and that the OP would soon get the hang of it! I've driven from 1 tonne to 25 tonne, and I know which end of the spectrum I prefer. 1 tonne machines, even in fairly experienced hands are not toys, and its very easy for something to go horribly wrong.

Paying an Owner Operator with their own machine is by far the most superior option.

 

[aveatry]

I paid a digger driver £295 all-in to dig the lot in a day, leaving a mound of soil for me next to it. I since found someone who wanted it, who was very happy to take it away.

For my anyway I doubt anyone would like 8 tons of thick sticky clay and I don't think Grayson Perry lives near me either.

 

[aveatry]

I was referring to an earlier suggestion of hiring a digger, and that the OP would soon get the hang of it! I've driven from 1 tonne to 25 tonne, and I know which end of the spectrum I prefer. 1 tonne machines, even in fairly experienced hands are not toys, and its very easy for something to go horribly wrong.

Paying an Owner Operator with their own machine is by far the most superior option.

I have thought about hiring one myself but always imagined a day wasted learning how to operate it. There needs to be something set up at hire places where you pay for fuel and can practice before you hire.
As for digging your own I think you may be surprised how much you can dig and how quick but you will hurt but so long as you do not damage yourself then consider it exorcise.
But if you have access than a man and a digger is what I would do.
I agree with others that £16k sounds like he does not want it - find more quotes.

 

[oldbutnotdead]

I have thought about hiring one myself but always imagined a day wasted learning how to operate it. There needs to be something set up at hire places where you pay for fuel and can practice before you hire.
As for digging your own I think you may be surprised how much you can dig and how quick but you will hurt but so long as you do not damage yourself then consider it exorcise.
But if you have access than a man and a digger is what I would do.
I agree with others that £16k sounds like he does not want it - find more quotes.

It took me about half an hour to get the basics of trenching and they are fun to use (as long as you are not next to foundations or digging round services).
Plan your dig (so you never have to cross your trench or drive very near it once you've dug it).