Overall Load on Double Socket on Spur

Whether it is single or double there is only one terminal each for live and neutral cables and the entire current has to pass from the barrels of these terminals to the interconnecting strips and this is ( most likely ) the main source of heat
I'm not sure whether that is a 'yes' or a 'no'! Can you clarify whether or not you're suggesting that more heat would be generated with, say, 6.5A being drawn through each output of a double socket as compared with 13A being drawn from a single socket?

Kind Regards, John
 
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With two single socket there would be four terminals ( two Live and two Neutral ) each with its own length of cables to dissipate the heat generated( in your example ) by the 6.5 amps.

With a double socket there would be only two terminals ( one Live one Neutral ) passing 13 amps so they would be producing 4 times the heat ( W = I squared R ) and less cables to dissipate the heat.
 
With two single socket there would be four terminals ( two Live and two Neutral ) each with its own length of cables to dissipate the heat generated( in your example ) by the 6.5 amps. ... With a double socket there would be only two terminals ( one Live one Neutral ) passing 13 amps so they would be producing 4 times the heat ( W = I squared R ) and less cables to dissipate the heat.
Ah, yes, W=I²R could well be the explanation. IF most of the heat generation in a double socket arises at places where the total load current (of both outlets) is flowing, then that will clearly lead to considerably more total heat generation than if the same total current were divided between two separate single sockets (each with same 'internal resistance' as the double one).

If that were the issue, most of it could presumably theoretically be 'designed out' by avoiding any conductors/joints carrying current from both outlets.

Kind Regards, John
 
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The current rating for the twin socket, is greater than that of the single socket and is largely due to the increased thermal heat dissipation, in the case of the twin socket. .... The total thermal current rating for 2 plugs in the same twin socket, is above 13A for both...

What exactly does that last sentence mean? It seems to imply that each of the plugs can safely carry >13A!

No, all it says is that for a double socket with a plug in each side, the TCR is 13A+, not exactly 13A.

All MK socket-outlets are manufactured to comply with BS1363 part 2: 1995 and are rated at 13A per unit.

'per unit' is very ambiguous in this situation.


No. Unit means "an individual thing". So it means socket, whether single or double.

Sockets may well be designed to withstand 20A for a prescribed test period (as per 1363) and we know that sockets are not designed to withstand a 26A loading, but I believe what MK are saying is that ther sockets, although rated to 13A, have been tested and found to be able to withstand a load of 19A indefinately without deterioration.
 
Sockets may well be designed to withstand 20A for a prescribed test period (as per 1363) ...
They obviously have to be, if they are going to be compliant with BS1363.
...and we know that sockets are not designed to withstand a 26A loading...
That seems to be the case (and certainly is for some), but there would be nothing stopping a manufacturer designing for a 26A loading if they wished to.
... but I believe what MK are saying is that ther sockets, although rated to 13A, have been tested and found to be able to withstand a load of 19A indefinately without deterioration.
It's not just a question of your belief - MK explicitly state that their sockets can withstand a load of 19.5A indefinitely. Exactly what 'rated to 13A' means is still unclear to me.

What does rather amaze me is MK's statement that, whilst their sockets can withstand 19.5A indefinitely (presumably, as you say, 'without deterioration'), just a slighly higher current than that (22.3A) can result in browning of the faceplate and thermal damage to the cable's insulation - that's a big change in consequences as a result of a minor increase in current, and things in the real world are not usually as precisely predictable as that implies.

We all know that double sockets cannot satisfactorily cope with 26A continuous load. The interesting question is this business about '13A rating', particularly given that, apart from MK, we haven't yet seen any detailed information about total load capabilities. Is the implication perhaps that some makes cannot really tolerate (or, at least, cannot be guaranteed to tolerate) more than 13A total continuously?

Kind Regards, John
 
We all know that double sockets cannot satisfactorily cope with 26A continuous load.
That's not a correct statement. I know of a brand that is happy at 26A, but the manufacturer does not wish to publicise that fact, to avoid having to guarantee it.
To my mind all dual socket-outlets should be able to carry 26A indefinitely without damage, partly because it is quite foreseeable that a consumer will plug two 3kW heaters into the same dual socket-outlet, but also because the standard is for 13A socket-outlets. There is no standard for lower current-rated socket-outlets that can accept a BS1363 plug; every BS1363 socket is therefore a 13A one, regardless of whether it shares a faceplate with anothe socket or not.
 
We all know that double sockets cannot satisfactorily cope with 26A continuous load.
That's not a correct statement. I know of a brand that is happy at 26A, but the manufacturer does not wish to publicise that fact, to avoid having to guarantee it.
Yes, what I should have written was "We all know that most, or all, double sockets...". I personally have not yet come across any which claim that they can, and (like most people) have certainly seen double sockets which have apparently suffered from large (sub 26A) loads.
To my mind all dual socket-outlets should be able to carry 26A indefinitely without damage, partly because it is quite foreseeable that a consumer will plug two 3kW heaters into the same dual socket-outlet, but also because the standard is for 13A socket-outlets.
As I'm always saying, I totally agree - and think that the situation we have is pretty ridiculous (aka potentially dangerous). I feel sure that the vast majority of consumers automatically assume that a double socket is designed to be able to safely supply a 2 x 13A load. I guess it's partially the fault of BS1363. If the Standard at least required the temperature rise test to be satisfied with 2 x 13A loading, that would move things in the right direction - even though that would not, in itself, guarantee that 26A continuous was OK. Mind you, the IET may then have to reconsider their allowing a 2.5mm² unfused spur to supply a double socket.

Kind Regards, John
 
I guess it's partially the fault of BS1363. If the Standard at least required the temperature rise test to be satisfied with 2 x 13A loading, that would move things in the right direction - even though that would not, in itself, guarantee that 26A continuous was OK.
It might be simpler to require the manufacturer to state the maximum combined continuous current rating in their catalogues/datasheets/whatever. That would sort the men from the boys pretty quickly!
 
I guess it's partially the fault of BS1363. If the Standard at least required the temperature rise test to be satisfied with 2 x 13A loading, that would move things in the right direction - even though that would not, in itself, guarantee that 26A continuous was OK.
It might be simpler to require the manufacturer to state the maximum combined continuous current rating in their catalogues/datasheets/whatever. That would sort the men from the boys pretty quickly!
Indeed so - which is how my comments in this threaded started; most manufacturers are vague/ ambiguous/ silent about the actual 'rating' of their double sockets. However, my recent point still remains, that I don't think they should be 'allowed' to sell sockets which cannot safely cope with 26A continuously. Compliance with any version of BS1363 would probably never be able to ensure the 'continuously' bit, but it would be a good start if BS1363 compliance at least required that the product had passed a temperature rise test (over whatever prescribed time period) at 2 x 13A.

Kind Regards, John
 
All MK socket-outlets are manufactured to comply with BS1363 part 2: 1995 and are rated at 13A per unit.
'per unit' is very ambiguous in this situation.
No. Unit means "an individual thing". So it means socket, whether single or double.
I really don't think the situation with MK sockets is as clear/straightforward as you suggest. If you look at the spec of MK Logic Plus sockets, it says:
Current rating: 13A per socket outlet (except 3 gang which is 13 amp in total)
This surely implies that they mean 2 x 13A for a double socket? Otherwise, the "except for..." would be redundant, since "13 amp in total" would be true for all sockets, not just 3 gang ones.

Kind Regards, John
 
I probably proves nothing. MK's 3 gang socket includes a 13amp fuse, hence the 13amp maximum.
I realise that, but the wording surely implies that the total rating a double socket is something other than "13A total" - even though we know that MK have said that a little over 22A can be damaging.

I'm not attempting to draw any conclusions from these statements/ numbers - merely attempting to underline my point that everything written about the ratings of double sockets (even that written by MK) is unclear and/or ambiguous. Whatever, I don't think many of us would be happy with anything like 26A continuous (or semi-continuous) on a current double socket, no matter what manufacturers may say - most of us have seen 'problems'.

Kind Regards, John
 

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