PIR Wiring Problem

[agsnowdon]

Hi

I have read the guides and previous posts here but none the wiser.

Untitled

• agsnowdon
• 26 Sep 2012
• 1

My floodlights are wired up as in the picture but only the LEFT light is coming on.

What I want to happen is when the left light is triggered all 3 come on and the same for when the right is triggered.

Power is going to all 3 lights but as I said only the left light is coming on.

The middle and right light were from screwfix items 22266 and 28393. As for the the left light and what ever the junction box thing is I have no idea as they were already here.

Any advice on where I have gone wrong?

Thanks, Ashley!

 

[Peet]

So the pre-existing left light with PIR works fine, but the newly added middle light with no PIR and the right hand light with PIR don't work.
The middle one most likely doesn't work as it has no power so check its connections, with no PIR it has nothing but that to stop it working. The right hand one either has no power or isn't setup correctly with things like dawn to dusk settings.

Using standard lights with/without PIRs you can't get all three to come on when any 1 of the 3 activates as there's no communication between them. They are powered but indepenedent.

Use your test meter to see if you have power to the middle fitting.

 

[TicklyT]

It looks like you will need another wire to link the switched live outputs of the PIRs. That wire should also be linked to the 'live' connection of the fitting without a PIR in place of the permanent live.

As to why only one slight works at the moment, what is connected to what at the 'junction of some sort' you have marked on your diagram?

Even if there's a live present at each fitting, it won't do anything unless there's a corresponding neutral connection present.

Mistakenly connecting the fittings in series would also produce unpredictable results.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

How have you wired them, what terminal, what cables?

 

[agsnowdon]

Yup, the left one works fine.

I didn't fit the 2 new lights a mate did who apparently is an electrician but he didn't have time to hang around to troubleshoot he is returning but not till next week, but I just need to know as what he has done seems logical. Power is going to the middle and right light. He put this wand type thing one cable going in to each light and it made a beep.

I have checked the settings on the right light and have put it on T as in the instructions. This should enable the light to come in any light level. Also set it to dark mode and just been out in pitch black and still not coming on but the left is still working.

Confused, does that give you any more ideas?

 

[agsnowdon]

How have you wired them, what terminal, what cables?

No, he used 1.5 mm twin and earth cable.

Not sure what you mean by the terminal bit. Sorry. I can ask him.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Wand thing? likely to be a voltage stick/pen will indicate a live but does not mean a neutral connection is there.
The lights simply wont work without a neutral!
But for them to all function off the same PIR they need to be able be switched by that PIR and it would also be logical to link the second PIR out!

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Not sure what you mean by the terminal bit. Sorry. I can ask him.

The terminal point/connection on the fittings, which cables go to which terminal connections?

 

[agsnowdon]

Wand thing? likely to be a voltage stick/pen will indicate a live but does not mean a neutral connection is there.
The lights simply wont work without a neutral!
But for them to all function off the same PIR they need to be able be switched by that PIR and it would also be logical to link the second PIR out!

Yes I imagine it was the voltage pen, the tip lit up red when he put it on the cable.

Potentially it could be what you say as in no neutral as if a live is going to the middle light surely that one would be on constantly?

To solve the potential middle light problem would it just be easier to put a PIR light there instead?

What do you mean by linking out the 2nd PIR?

Thanks for your help.

 

[agsnowdon]

Not sure what you mean by the terminal bit. Sorry. I can ask him.

The terminal point/connection on the fittings, which cables go to which terminal connections?

So I think he has connected the terminals as in the pic I have put on the 1st post, sure that he just connected L to L, N to N and E to E on all for components eg the 3 lights and junction box bit.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[agsnowdon]

It looks like you will need another wire to link the switched live outputs of the PIRs. That wire should also be linked to the 'live' connection of the fitting without a PIR in place of the permanent live.

As to why only one slight works at the moment, what is connected to what at the 'junction of some sort' you have marked on your diagram?

Even if there's a live present at each fitting, it won't do anything unless there's a corresponding neutral connection present.

Mistakenly connecting the fittings in series would also produce unpredictable results.

Missed your post. Does this extra wire you speak of just go inside the 2 pir lights not actually run between them? would be better/easier just just change the middle one to pir and add this extra wire inside it to save running extra cable between the 2 pirs to the middle one without?

I think the junction box is there to connect everything up and there also seems to be a wire running up into the roof/loft.

Electrics are complicated hey!

 

[bernardgreen]

To have any PIR operating all three lights will require triple and earth cable between the lamps.

Live.
Neutral
Switched Live
Earth

You will also need to check that the PIRs can switch the total load of all three lights.

The middle light would be connected between Switched Live and Neutral.

When replacing the cable it might be worth taking the triple and earth cable to a switch inside the house so the lights can be operated manually if required.

 

[agsnowdon]

To have any PIR operating all three lights will require triple and earth cable between the lamps.

Live.
Neutral
Switched Live
Earth

You will also need to check that the PIRs can switch the total load of all three lights.

The middle light would be connected between Switched Live and Neutral.

When replacing the cable it might be worth taking the triple and earth cable to a switch inside the house so the lights can be operated manually if required.

I see so the twin and earth we have used is no good.

The source is already coming from inside the house which is connected to a switch. Would the source cable need to be triple and earth too?

 

[bernardgreen]

You do not have to bring the triple and earth to the switch if you are OK with being able to turn the lights OFF. My preference is to wire two switches as below to be able to be able to turn the lights ON when there is no activity to trigger the PIRs and OFF if one of the PIRs has jammed on for any reason.

PIR with overrides

• bernardgreen
• 18 Mar 2011
• 20

Using two single pole switches to provide overrides for a basic PIR

 

[agsnowdon]

You do not have to bring the triple and earth to the switch if you are OK with being able to turn the lights OFF. My preference is to wire two switches as below to be able to be able to turn the lights ON when there is no activity to trigger the PIRs and OFF if one of the PIRs has jammed on for any reason.

PIR with overrides

• bernardgreen
• 18 Mar 2011
• 20

Using two single pole switches to provide overrides for a basic PIR

Hi

thanks for your reply. I think I understand now. You couldn't do me a massive favour could you? and draw me out how I need it wired up as per my set up on post 1? I would be very tahnkful.

Regards Ash