Planning Permission - Do I need to buy plans from previous?

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Hi

I bought a house in September 2012 and it came with planning permission for a 2 storey extension.

At the time of purchase, we didn't like the plans, and so when our solicitor asked us if we wanted to buy them?? we said no

now we are thinking they are OK, but now don't know whether we can build it!

Do we need to buy the plans from the architect? and the previous owner?

or am i right in thinking that the plans are all ours because we bought the house?

thanks!
 
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The plans should be in the public domain, check your council website and download them.
 
Hi

yes they are I have all of them, but my solictor clearly stated that if I build it the architect / previous owners could sue as I would be using thier plans without paying for them :eek:
 
Just because plans are in the public domain does not relinquish their ownership. As the discussion occurred during the sale they clearly weren’t included in the sale price so I would suspect that you do not have any right to use them. Though I would also suspect that in reality the cost/hassle involved for the previous owner legally challenging the OP would outweigh the cost of the drawings so doubt they would do much about it. Unless it was a particularly onerous extension that took many thousands to get through planning for example.

Whilst the previous owner may understandably be miffed, the previous architect has presumably already been paid so he doesn’t really have any cause for complaint anyway.

All morals aside of course .....
 
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right ok, well yes the architect would have been paid

I think i may drop the archtitect an email, and see what he says

as for the previous owners, again, i dont know what can be done there

If i was to extend the deadline for it, and then alter the plans (this would effectively be a NEW application) there wouldnt be a problem I presume as the extension would be different?

Thanks
 
Previous owners...are as said PREVIOUS..
They may have well paid for the plans to be drawn, but they cant get the work done now, as they dont own the property..So 4get about them.
 
As mentioned the previous owner is the one who’s gonna be more miffed so why even contact the architect? Extending the deadline wouldn’t change the ownership it still wouldn’t be yours. You can apply for an amendment to the approval but they won’t allow any significant changes: http://www.hart.gov.uk/index/top-pl...i_make_changes_to_my_planning_application.htm

You would have to do a whole new application for something different in which case there is little issue though the existing drawings still had to be paid for and could be readily reproduced.

How much are we talking about? What kind of figures were being banded about for the cost of the drawings?
 
Previous owners...are as said PREVIOUS..
They may have well paid for the plans to be drawn, but they cant get the work done now, as they dont own the property..So 4get about them.
Forget them maybe but they still own the drawings.
 
Copyright remains with the designer, irrespective of whether he has been paid or not. You don't know the contractual arrangement between the designer and previous owner.

Use of the drawings would be limited to just the previous owner, and they did not come free with the house

The design is also copyright, not just the drawings
 
The plans might be posted on the council planning website but the copyright still belongs to the architect. The house owner certainly has no rights over the drawings.

However, copyright only prevents you from reproducing the drawings so you will not be able to amend them or use them for another planning application, but you should be able to build from them.

You will not however have any comeback on the architect if there are problems as you have no contract with him.
 
Despite the copyright laws, the architect will have a hard job preventing anyone using his drawings if they have been given them by the original owner/whoever paid for the plans.
 
Despite the copyright laws, the architect will have a hard job preventing anyone using his drawings if they have been given them by the original owner/whoever paid for the plans.

One thing should be made absolutely clear - it is a common misconception that when you pay an architect to design something that you gain ownership of the drawings. This is false. A client pays for design services, the architect uses drawings to illustrate those design services.

Also, DO NOT presume that just because the drawings of your house are in the public domain that you are free to use them... this is another fallacy. Publishing drawings (or any works) publicly, or displaying them online does NOT relinquish any copyrights (many councils are now displaying caution notes to this effect on their sites).

In short, the architect holds copyright over their drawings and issues them to others. They can choose to give up their copyright for free or for a fee. You should check the drawings to see who the copyright holder is - you should find somewhere the (C) symbol and name. However, if you make any un-authorised changes to the plans, or make any copies of the plans then quite clearly you will have infringed on the owners copyright.

An designer won't be able to PREVENT someone from using their drawings, but they CAN confront infringements of their copyright material and in such cases the person who breached the law will have a hard time fighting such a clear cut claim against them.

The cost of pursuing a copyright case may be high, but it is likely that the party that caused the breach will in the end be forced to pay full costs, and may be additionally required to pay the architect for loss of earnings as well as a fee for the retrospective use of the plans in that instance (ie: if you make a further application using their plans that they could have charged you for).



My advice is as follows:

1.Contact the original architect. Ask them if they can issue you with drawings. They may issue them to you for free (though this does not mean you can copy or adapt them without their permission).

2.If you do want to make changes etc. then ask them if they are able to issue you with the computer drawing file. Not many designers will freely give this up, because it allows anyone to take the original work and then carry on a project. Retaining copyright on this is pretty much impossible because someone else can say they re-measured the building and drew their own design. For that reason, most designers will charge a fee for this. You will need to weigh up if this cost is more or less than the cost for getting someone else in to measure up and draw plans for you.

3.Ask them to provide a quote to continue with further stages of work, for example; to make any amendments to the plans, sort out building control details and help point you to some builders.
 
Yes that’s all good theory there, however I have never in 25 years worked for a practice that when they heard their precious copyrighted plans were being used by the clients’ next architects had sued them and have never heard of another practice doing so either. I have also worked for plenty of practices who have used another architects plans and copied them either digitally or by tracing them that had any qualms or worries about doing so either. Alls fair in love and war and all that.
 
Yes that’s all good theory there, however I have never in 25 years worked for a practice that when they heard their precious copyrighted plans were being used by the clients’ next architects had sued them and have never heard of another practice doing so either. I have also worked for plenty of practices who have used another architects plans and copied them either digitally or by tracing them that had any qualms or worries about doing so either. Alls fair in love and war and all that.

Agreed

I just want to clarify, if a designer takes said drawings, and scales from them to produce their own plans then this is would be all but impossible to control. After all, copying an existing plan, should in theory be exactly the same result as if you were to go and do your own survey. As such, it would not be possible to prove any infringment.

However, if you were to take an architects drawings, draw a new window where you wanted it, and submit it to the planning department then you will have quite clearly breached the owners copyright and could open yourself up to a claim. you'd have used their exact drawings, amended and copied them before submitting them - in the process making it look like the company in question made the application.

You say you've never heard of it, but I've worked with an architectural firm that DID at least enforce clear breaches like the above. (Apparently it often didn't go to court, because a letter informing of the infringment was usually enough to come to a settlement without needing to get solicitors involved...)

Maybe in the past it was often glossed over, but it seems like it is becoming a bigger issue. And ultimately, just because people didn't used to enforce their copyright, does not mean they couldn't have... they just chose not to. But they could equally have chosen to.


I suppose it's a little like saying driving 90mph down the motorway is okay... until you get caught.
 

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