Poor pressure on a megaflo??
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I am in agreement with simond on this.
Proposition; a simple accumulator can provide a worthwhile (but limited duration) performance enhancement on unvented cylinders fed from supplies with poor system characteristics.
Nothing to do with increasing available static pressure; pumps and cisterns are not relevant.
Whether it is the most (or even an) appropriate/economic solution must be judged on a case by case basis.
It will however do what it says on the tin.
Proposition; a simple accumulator can provide a worthwhile (but limited duration) performance enhancement on unvented cylinders fed from supplies with poor system characteristics.
Nothing to do with increasing available static pressure; pumps and cisterns are not relevant.
Whether it is the most (or even an) appropriate/economic solution must be judged on a case by case basis.
It will however do what it says on the tin.
Crystal said:
A potential customer then.
With a supply giving (IIRC) 4+ bar and 18l/min that hardly needs enhancing IMO, but an improvement will not occur if the "system characteristic" is low static pressure.
Which is just as well, since, other than pumping there is no way of doing it.
Which is "acumulate", does it also say it's not much benefit if your staticpressure is low.
oilman,
having read you last message several times, I cannot determine whether you are unable to grasp the issues here or whether it is a deliberate attempt to obfuscate.
If it is the former, I suggest that you read the thread from the beginning, slowly.
If it is the latter I have no further comment to make.
having read you last message several times, I cannot determine whether you are unable to grasp the issues here or whether it is a deliberate attempt to obfuscate.
If it is the former, I suggest that you read the thread from the beginning, slowly.
If it is the latter I have no further comment to make.
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There's a third permutation that you missed out, which is the real one, namely that oilman has grasped the principles perfectly, and the points he makes are 'crystal' clear.Crystal said:
I understand everything he's just written, whereas simond is the one attempting to obfuscate his way out of the corner he's painted himself into.
Now you risk alienating me as well, Simon. You signally failed to prove anything, initially offering little more than hyperbole. It was left to others to work out the principles and calculate theoretical flow rates and pressures. You only belatedly supplied some actual measurements which simply confirmed the predictions made, particularly by ChrisR.simond said:
Apart from my initial jibes, I've tried to be fair to you in this thread, sometimes sticking up for you (and/or accumulators) when other regulars were attacking you (and/or accumulators). But you have to ask yourself why you have provoked such a hostile reaction from so many regulars. As ChrisR pointed out, your salesmanship skills don't seem too hot.
I would like to remind you of the chronology. I offered the OP a solution. Which I know works, both from my own technical understanding and the fact that we have over 70 units installed in Surrey and London.
We then have 11 pages of correspondence, mainly from people in the trade - with seemingly a lot of time on their hands, judging from the date stamps of their posts.
These 'trade' people demand to know the commercial terms, details of the patent, detailed flow rates etc. from me. It is reminiscent of being an outsider trying to join a secret club, rather than a helpful discussion board.
The question I originally responded to, as it seems most of you have forgotten, was from a member of the public on how to raise the flow rate on a Megaflo.
Since the vast majority of you armchair experts with time on your hands originally disputed my suggestion (perhaps an understatement) I don't have a problem naming my company as having expertise in the accumulator field.
As can be observed by those with the patience and stamina to read from the start of this ill mannered debate, the latest storyline amongst the 'regular pundits' is that you understood the principle from the start but were frustrated by my explanation. Your earlier posts betray this.
My experience in the plumbing and heating industry contrasts with that on this forum - most of our competitors and fellow tradesman are charming fellows. Perhaps it is because of the medium (internet), where no-one meets face to face, that it seems acceptable to be so rude and vindictive.
I am worried that the impression given to the general public reading this thread (and certain others in the plumbing section) is that the trade is full of miserable, impotent old men with too much time on their hands who like to score points off each other and make cheap jibes.
I tried to offer something original and frankly I have been surprised by the response; I will leave it to the sad minority to busy themselves by cutting and pasting parts of this text and adding their asides.
We then have 11 pages of correspondence, mainly from people in the trade - with seemingly a lot of time on their hands, judging from the date stamps of their posts.
These 'trade' people demand to know the commercial terms, details of the patent, detailed flow rates etc. from me. It is reminiscent of being an outsider trying to join a secret club, rather than a helpful discussion board.
The question I originally responded to, as it seems most of you have forgotten, was from a member of the public on how to raise the flow rate on a Megaflo.
Since the vast majority of you armchair experts with time on your hands originally disputed my suggestion (perhaps an understatement) I don't have a problem naming my company as having expertise in the accumulator field.
As can be observed by those with the patience and stamina to read from the start of this ill mannered debate, the latest storyline amongst the 'regular pundits' is that you understood the principle from the start but were frustrated by my explanation. Your earlier posts betray this.
My experience in the plumbing and heating industry contrasts with that on this forum - most of our competitors and fellow tradesman are charming fellows. Perhaps it is because of the medium (internet), where no-one meets face to face, that it seems acceptable to be so rude and vindictive.
I am worried that the impression given to the general public reading this thread (and certain others in the plumbing section) is that the trade is full of miserable, impotent old men with too much time on their hands who like to score points off each other and make cheap jibes.
I tried to offer something original and frankly I have been surprised by the response; I will leave it to the sad minority to busy themselves by cutting and pasting parts of this text and adding their asides.
The only person with secrets on this topic is you, simond, and you're a bigger liar than I thought.
The questions that I asked you had nothing to do with commercial terms or patents, but were requesting details of your own domestic installation - the one that you claim provided proof "to the forum" that you were right.
At least the insults coming your way were direct and to the point, not underhand and slimy like the comments in your post this evening.
You know what they say - if you can't stand the heat, get out of the forum.
The questions that I asked you had nothing to do with commercial terms or patents, but were requesting details of your own domestic installation - the one that you claim provided proof "to the forum" that you were right.
At least the insults coming your way were direct and to the point, not underhand and slimy like the comments in your post this evening.
You know what they say - if you can't stand the heat, get out of the forum.
After all this heat & light, the thing I've still failed to get my head around is the patent and what 'inventive step(s)' led to it being granted.
It's siting there in all its glory at http://v3.espacenet.com/textdes?DB=EPODOC&IDX=GB2349908&F=0&QPN=GB2349908 but having read it I still can't see any advance over the 'receiver' used on a hydraulic ram pump (invented sometime in the 18th or 19th century). Especially given that the company behind http://www.accumulators.co.uk/accumulators/Accumulators.htm seems to have been doing much the same sorts of thing since 1968.
It's siting there in all its glory at http://v3.espacenet.com/textdes?DB=EPODOC&IDX=GB2349908&F=0&QPN=GB2349908 but having read it I still can't see any advance over the 'receiver' used on a hydraulic ram pump (invented sometime in the 18th or 19th century). Especially given that the company behind http://www.accumulators.co.uk/accumulators/Accumulators.htm seems to have been doing much the same sorts of thing since 1968.
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I would like to point out that I have been entirely neutral in this discussion
simond's 3rd post said:
The post continued in this vein with NO technical information, just another marketing ploy.
simond's 4th post said:
There you go simond, a free plug for you. Again, NO technical information in your post, just a hint that you will relieve someone of their money.
simond's 5th post said:
Oh, at last, a piece of technical information (if you bother to look, but even then it was only a tool to ridicule an unknown installer). No hint of how to effect a DIY fix though, just ANOTHER sales attempt. Always trust a salesman, NOT.
Simond, you should not live in glass houses, others will throw stones even if you don't. Wilhelm picked the right word.
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