Pressure fault diagnosis and consequences for repair

[Bobismyuncle]

I'm no expert but this case seems a little dubious to me.

Long story short:

- My boiler (performa 28 - potterton) has flagged up a pressure fault
- Boiler is static rock solid at 0.5 bar (has been for 12 months)
- I bleed radiators - 5 in the house and 2 have a bit of air.
- Return back to boiler and it has lost 0.1 - 0.2.
- I top boiler up with about 0.3 taking it the gauge up to 0.7
- turn boiler back on and pressure fault light still blinking.
- Engineer is called out via boiler insurance from a well known energy supplier
- Engineer asks for manual - I offer pdf he declines
- I return back after 10mins to find the engineer with mobile phone wedged between sholuder and ear dealing with water all over the place and buckets under boiler - I leave him to it
- I return back another 10 mins later and he on the phone ordering parts but has moment to talk - he says the boiler has had a leak and has damaged lots of parts.
- I return 5 mins later to find engineer in his van and a sticker on the boiler saying "RISK out of use etc.
- Engineer returns with paperwork for me to sign and says the boiler is BER "beyond economical repair". His company will not authorise the repair and will pass on paper work to the well known energy supply I currently have insurance with.
- Engineer is off

The paper work says - "Boiler leaking inside" - parts required:

- PCB board
- pump
- PVR
- 3 way valve
- pressure gauge

To note:
- There has been a pressure fault before with this boiler - the previous engineer had to open it up and flick a switch that was jamed or stuck? He was gone within 5mins. That was 12 months ago - since then the system has held solid pressure until recently the fault kept coming back. I would solve the issue by turning the system off and then on. The boiler would fire up and work until the fault came up and I would turn off and then on....etc

Needless to say I am a bit skeptical about the work carried out yesterday by the engineer. I must add I'm no expert. I've read up quite a it about this boiler and pressure faults in general and this does not add up to me.

In my mind logic suggests that if the boiler was holding rock steady pressure with no sign of water/residue on the boiler or floor (I had to touch the pipe work under the boiler to release some air into the system as mentioned earlier) then there was no leak.

The engineer carrys out some work and water is ****ing out all over the place.

Then I am landed with a list of parts that need replacing (including the electrics - PCB board) that appeared to working along with a pressure gauge that was defiantly working. So that's two parts from his list that were working before he came.

After speaking with a few Gas Safe engineers they were shocked that 5 parts would go at once on a boiler.

I guess, I'm writing this post to find out weather other people 'in the know' thought about this case?

I am awaiting a call from this well known energy supplier to find out weather they agree with the engineers BER report or whether they will over turn it and repair the boiler and replace the parts. If they agree and refuse to repair the boiler then I want as much evidence as possible to contest their judgment.

The insurance cover £500 parts and labour. I costed those parts from a website and estimated between 300-400 excluding labour. I guess the labour would send the cost well over £500 hence their position to claim the boiler BER

I be really grateful for any feedback or thoughts on this case. Many thanks

 

[muggles]

From your description it sounds like the attending engineer has cocked up and flooded the boiler, although I can't imagine what he'd have done to achieve this

Complain that he left it in a worse state than when he arrived

As an aside, normal cold pressure in a heating system should be about 1.2 bar, so your pressure fault may have simply been the result of not putting enough water into the boiler

 

[Bobismyuncle]

From your description it sounds like the attending engineer has cocked up and flooded the boiler, although I can't imagine what he'd have done to achieve this

Complain that he left it in a worse state than when he arrived

As an aside, normal cold pressure in a heating system should be about 1.2 bar, so your pressure fault may have simply been the result of not putting enough water into the boiler

Agreed the pressure should be higher. The previous engineer left at around 0.5 and with it being a sensitive issue for the boiler I did not want to tamper with it. It worked so I left it.

The engineer said he had to break a seal or valve to deal with it. Whatever that means. I can't work out what part of the boiler he referring to for that to be the case??

 

[Agile]

What do you mean pressure is a sensitive issue?

All boilers need between 1.0 bar and 1.5 bar when cold in normal installations.

Running round bleeding air is a major cause of people calling me with boiler issues.

Is obvious to any boiler engineer that he somehow managed to flood your boiler and damage the PCB and maybe pump. But its quite likely the pump is not failed. Having it checked and found to be OK could be your one chance to prove the boiler repairable.

But for you to prove that is probably very difficult.

If the PCB is wetted with no power then it is often recoverable with a hair dryer.

That's why many would say you are better off with a good independent.

Tony

 

[petit_pablo]

Id argue the guy who came to fix it has cocked it up and caused most of the damage. From what you have briefly described in post #1 these boilers dont have a low pressure switch so im guessing it was the pump light (50c) that came on? In which case the repair should have been <45mins and minimal cost.

I hear alot of stories like the OPs from people who return to BG having gone to A.N.Others boiler cover as they were cheaper.

 

[BigSnoopy01]

I agree it sounds like the engineer has caused damage unrelated to the original fault.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Engineer undid something without draining first. Caught a nasty surprise, and is now covering his arris.

Pretty obvious really.

 

[Bobismyuncle]

Another phone call to the energy supplier (who supply the insurance) and I'm still waiting for their engineer to either support or challenge the BER.

What do you mean pressure is a sensitive issue?

All boilers need between 1.0 bar and 1.5 bar when cold in normal installations.

Running round bleeding air is a major cause of people calling me with boiler issues.

Is obvious to any boiler engineer that he somehow managed to flood your boiler and damage the PCB and maybe pump. But its quite likely the pump is not failed. Having it checked and found to be OK could be your one chance to prove the boiler repairable.

But for you to prove that is probably very difficult.

If the PCB is wetted with no power then it is often recoverable with a hair dryer.

That's why many would say you are better off with a good independent.

Tony

What I mean by sensitive is the boiler seems to be sensitive to a pressure fault in the past. The previous engineer 12 months ago sorted the problem and left the pressure at 0.5. I'm not going to tamper with it if it works.

The boiler stopped firing up completely 3 days ago when turning it off and on sorted the problem before. I bled 2 radiators which had minimal air it thinking that if I took that out and then put back the 0.2 or so it lost to around or just over the original 0.5 that was working for the last 12 months it might help. I want to add that I did not touch the radiators before it refused to fire up.

Getting a good independent is the ideal. Being a first home owner it's taking time to build up contacts. I recognise a good service when I see it. Had the same MOTmechanic and hairdresser for 15 years!

Id argue the guy who came to fix it has cocked it up and caused most of the damage. From what you have briefly described in post #1 these boilers dont have a low pressure switch so im guessing it was the pump light (50c) that came on? In which case the repair should have been <45mins and minimal cost.

I hear alot of stories like the OPs from people who return to BG having gone to A.N.Others boiler cover as they were cheaper.

Yeah it was a 60c light that started blinking for this fault.

Just had a phone call stating that they are still waiting for the engineer to make a decision. But the call centre agent (and common sense) suggests that the list of parts he has listed makes the boiler BER. He took a detailed account of the scenario and is taking the already existing complaint further. I need to keep the energy supplier in my side to take on the out sourced plumbing company the carried out the 'work'.

I have a 14 week old baby in the house. Need to get this sorted. Their terms and conditions state that it is a priority with baby under 6months. Not what sure their definition of a priority really means and what I can expect in terms of turnaround?

Thanks for all your replies!! Much appreciated

 

[bernardgreen]

Could the pressure sensor to the PCB be detecting the correct pressure ( assuming it is an ON-OFF switch and not an analogue signal to the PCB ) while the pressure gauge is not giving the correct reading of pressure.

 

[Agile]

Bernard, you need to Google what the boiler has inside it!

 

[bernardgreen]

Hydraulic Pressure Sensor Microswitch operates if there is enough pressure in the sensor so NOT analogue to the PCB,

Pressure gauge is shown as piped to the Heating Return pipe so independent of the Hydraulic Pressure Sensor operation.

 

[Bobismyuncle]

Hydraulic Pressure Sensor Microswitch operates if there is enough pressure in the sensor so NOT analogue to the PCB,

Pressure gauge is shown as piped to the Heating Return pipe so independent of the Hydraulic Pressure Sensor operation.

Sounds interesting, but gone over my head. What are the implications of what you have determined in relation to my fault? Thanks.

 

[Dan Robinson]

The implications being that Bernard nerds to Google better

 

[bernardgreen]

What are the implications of what you have determined in relation to my fault?

The reading displayed on the pressure gauge may be incorrect due to a defective pressure gauge. The pressure gauge is showing 0.5 bar to you while the actual pressure is 1.0 bar. The pressure sensor that informs the control PCB that there is adequate pressure has operated on teh 1.0 bar pressure so teh boiler can operate.

Alternatively the pressure gauge is telling you the correct pressure and the pressure sensor is operating on a lower pressure than it should.

 

[snes]

Not too sure Bernard is guilty of Googling on this. I think he has a past career of working on electronic systems - so circuit board problems should be meat and drink to him.

Note - not having a dig here at anyone, and if I am wrong here Bernard, my apologies.