Pressure loss 'trace and access' clause

[John571]

I am experiencing ongoing loss of pressure after a new combi boiler has been installed.

The boiler company have replaced the 'Heat Exchanger' as they thought it may be at fault because the loss of pressure is greater when the hot water is on as apposed to the central heating which has a more gradual loss of pressure. The boiler company say that it is pipe work leak, on inspection there are no leaks above floor level.

I have read on this forum about the success of using the building insurance's 'Trace and Access' clause to find the leak. I have been in contact with my insurance company who tell me that I have that clause and cover but there has to be (resultant damage, proven damage) and as my description states there is no visible damage then I wouldn't be covered.

The actual wording fro Trace and Access in the building insurance is 'locating the source and subsequent making good of damage' there is nothing to say that there has to be actual visible damage attributed to the cause.

I would be grateful if anyone can tell me if the insurance company interpretation is correct and if anyone has experience of a similar blocking by the insurance company?

I have read on this forum that an insurance company in a similar situation will pay for the cover if there is a leak, if not it is at the owners cost which seems a fairer situation.

Thanks for listening

 

[mcmoby69]

if its new surely its a warranty/installer issue? not house insurance......

how old is the boiler?

 

[John571]

if its new surely its a warranty/installer issue? not house insurance......

how old is the boiler?

Its a new boiler and the manufacture have been twice and fitted a new heat exchanger and said that it is not the boiler at fault but a leak in the pipework. The pipe work is old but worked fine for years with a conventual boiler system. The system had a power flush and no leaks after that were visible.

 

[expertgasman]

if its new surely its a warranty/installer issue? not house insurance......

No, you can not expect a boiler installer to warrant old pipework. I always draw my client's attention to the possibility of leaks coming to light. The increased pressure may reveal issues, but not cause them.

 

[mcmoby69]

ah ok, boiler is newly installed on existing pipework. doesnt say that in OP.
i dont warranty existing pipework either!

insurance company will pay out when the floor joists have rotted and your floor disappears one day.

that should be enough 'evident damage'

 

[Dan Robinson]

No, you can not expect a boiler installer to warrant old pipework. I always draw my client's attention to the possibility of leaks coming to light. The increased pressure may reveal issues, but not cause them.

Yep - clause 16 of my T's & C's for this very reason.

 

[John571]

ah ok, boiler is newly installed on existing pipework. doesnt say that in OP.
i dont warranty existing pipework either!

insurance company will pay out when the floor joists have rotted and your floor disappears one day.

that should be enough 'evident damage'

If only it were that simple, the insurance company say you can't do a waiting game! If it isn't visible then it isn't there

 

[Agile]

Most insurance companies will cover damage caused by a leak.

Some will cover damage done in locating the leak.

Neither is likely to cover ripping the house apart if there is no leak to be found.

I dont remember giving you a quotation for a new boiler ???

Tony

 

[Dan Robinson]

I dont remember giving you a quotation for a new boiler ???

 

[John571]

Most insurance companies will cover damage caused by a leak.

Some will cover damage done in locating the leak.

Neither is likely to cover ripping the house apart if there is no leak to be found.

I dont remember giving you a quotation for a new boiler ???

Tony

If two heating engineers think it would be a leak (without out actual visible proof) based on experience and probability would that be enough for insurance company to act upon?

 

[Agile]

You are the home owner!

You decide what to do or not do.

The insurance will usually pay for insured risks. The costs involved will need to be the the minimum possible to do the work.

Why dont you expect to pay for whatever is required to sort it out?

I still dont remember giving you a quote for a new boiler. Did you get it done very cheaply by East Europeans?

Did you pay these two heating engineers for their "thoughts" ?

Tony

 

[John571]

You are the home owner!

You decide what to do or not do.

The insurance will usually pay for insured risks. The costs involved will need to be the the minimum possible to do the work.

Why dont you expect to pay for whatever is required to sort it out?

I still dont remember giving you a quote for a new boiler. Did you get it done very cheaply by East Europeans?

Did you pay these two heating engineers for their "thoughts" ?

Tony

Yes I am the home owner. Thanks for the "insured risk" comment. I pay for insurance so I am trying determine if the building insurance company are in or out of their cover as they are deciding by interpretation not by their worded description. The heating engineer was chosen for their experience, accreditation, recommendation and locality and happily came to offer his opinion on the problem. The boiler manufacturer is paid for by the boiler company under warranty.

 

[Agile]

Insurance Companies normally consider a claim AFTER a loss has occured.

I dont see how they could agree a claim when an insured event has not happened.

It was very generous of the boiler maker to send their engineer to advise you on your leak when their boiler was not at fault. Was it Worcester?

Were these two heating engineers paid for their thoughts on your problem?

Tony

 

[gasbanni]

There is always a risk converting an open vented heating system which will automatically top itself up to a sealed pressurised system which will not.

You may have several small leaks so small the water evaporates and there is no water damage.

Could be a small leak under the floor. Its not the installers fault its just unfortunate for you. Id get someone to look under the ground floor floor to see if they can find anything.

 

[John571]

Insurance Companies normally consider a claim AFTER a loss has occured.

I dont see how they could agree a claim when an insured event has not happened.

Were these two heating engineers paid for their thoughts on your problem?

Tony

It makes sense on one level that an insurer doesn't cover for a non proven event, except another person on this forum was in a similar situation and the insurers paid for an investigation of a probable leak on the basis that if it wasn't a leak then the owner would pay. Some insurance in other areas has been decided on by professional opinion and probability. I guess its more of a legal question.

The two engineers didn't relate anything about possible insurance I got the initial information on the clause from this forum.

The boiler engineer didn't ask want payment to check over the system after installation, he has done other work for me since and the boiler manufacture engineer was paid for form the manufacturer.

So what would be a next step to fixing the problem aside form the insurance. The pressure leak could be the boiler (not probable) or the leaking pipe (more probable). Better to take up floor boards room by room, contact a specialised leak testing company, or any other ways.

Thanks for your interest.