Rads bursting and cold in the middle - open system

[j17esh]

Hi All,

I've had my third rad burst on me last night (great for new years eve!). two others went about 2 weeks ago within days of each other - I just closed the valves and thought I'd sort them in Jan.

I don't know how the pipework goes around the house but I think I have an open system, it's an old boiler. The water only gets hot when we have the heating on.

The water that has come out of the rads is pretty clear so I don't think there is sludge in there??

I have a 3 bed semi - 3 Rads on the ground floor (all of which I replaced 3 1/2 years ago when I bought the house - it was one of these that burst last night) there are 4 rads up stairs, one of these is a towel radiator (I did replace one of these last year as it burst! the other 2 rads burst about two weeks ago!)

All of the rads seem to be cold in random places (towel rad gets cold at top and needs bleeding regularly). A friend of mine thinks this air must be causing the rads to burst, as the air expands etc??

Does anybody know how to get rid of the air in the middle?

Also a lot of the valves have a green crust on them like there is a drip leak or something? is this harmful to the heating system?

Is it worth getting the system jet cleaned?

I think I'll stop now! Thanks for reading and any responses in advance.

Happy new year to everyone!!

Jit.

 

[Agile]

It sounds as if your system may be pumping over. That can cause a lot of damage a very short time.

The sooner its dealt with the better.

You will probably have to replace all the rads!

You need to immediately inspect the F&E tank to see if its pumping over.

At the very least the fault will need to be corrected and the system power flushed.

Tony

 

[seco services]

i would say you have a sludged system.
air won't get stuck in the middle air rises.
whats the condition off the water in the f/e tank in the loft ?

 

[gas4you]

Sounds from here that your system is seriously sludged and the corrosion this has caused has eaten through the rads.

As you have found out, once one rad goes others will follow if it is corrosion to this extent.

You need to flush the system thoroughly with the likes of X800, flush with clean water, clean the header tank out and see what happens next.

You may unfortunately find you end up having to replace most, if not all of the radiators

 

[j17esh]

thankyou for your quick responses!

do corgi engineers do powerflushes? does this site have a directory of engineers etc?

I don't realy know about f/e tanks in the loft - so I need some professional help!?!! will have to wait til Friday I think.

I have turned the boiler back on today but on a low setting as it is freezing! hopefully my other rads will last?!

 

[j17esh]

ignore the directory question - there are no registered plumbers in my area - erdington, birmingham!

 

[swbjackson]

Try looking on www.ciphe.co.uk There should be a reputable installer in your area.

Mike

 

[dripping]

Where in Erdington are you?

 

[j17esh]

I live near the spaghetti junction

 

[j17esh]

Update - my towel rad's gone as well.

Well a friend of mine that is a corgi engineer came over and looked at the system last week.

There is a blockage or something and it is pumping over - the f/e tank is steaming hot water. He put his hand in there and it smelt of corrosion inhibitor - he thinks there might be too much in the system?

A lot of the valves and reducing compression joints have white/green crust on them - my friend has never seen such a bad system. He does only really work on commercial systems - pubs etc though.

He's advised to replace all compression joints - there are quite a few and there might be more under floor boards these need to be replaced with copper joints as he reckons they won't handle a powerflush.

He doesn't want to do the job as he's not insured and he thinks other things might go wrong.

If I empty system, refill and empty around 4 times. Take my only 3 working rads off and flush with hose and rubber mallet. And then fit a magnaclean. Will this do a similar job to powerflush?

There are so many different views on these chemicals as well - can I use Sentinel X800 to clean and then add some inhibitor?

Any advice appreciated. Money is tight right now so if I can do it myself I will...

 

[j17esh]

BTW the compression joints are to change from 10mm to 15mm pipework

 

[Agile]

It sounds as if your system may be pumping over. That can cause a lot of damage a very short time.

The sooner its dealt with the better.

You will probably have to replace all the rads!

You need to immediately inspect the F&E tank to see if its pumping over.

Tony

You have now had another 26 days of pumping over.

Any power flushing or just chemical cleaning will be likely to hole the remaining rads.

You should first replace all the holed rads and then you could try X400 as its quite mild BUT you must cure the pumping over immediately or the new ones will be spoilt!

It sounds like a DIY job if it uses compression joints. They can often be retightened if they leaked so I am less concerned by them.

I dont think you realise the seriousness of your situation. I asked you to IMMEDIATELY inspect the F&E tank. You have now lost another rad!

Its so bad that most professionals will want to stay clear of it. With my experience I know that the only proper solution is to replace all the rads. You just might get away with keeping the three left but with it still pumping over those are likely to fail as well if you keep on using it.

You would not continue to drive your car on flat tyres would you? Using your heating is the same kind of thing!

Tony

 

[j17esh]

Tony,

I have purchased 4 new rads now and have got them in my garage. I was planning on swapping these next weekend 7th Feb!

That's another 10/11 days pumping over!

A nice chap from Power Flush Birmingham has just been out and recommended changing boiler! He also turned the pump down to 2 to calm the pumping over down.

Is X400 enough to clear blockages like this? Or should I get it powerflushed? Is any of this worth it?

Should I just wait and change the boiler - probably at least 2 months!

In order to stop pumping over are the only solutions powerflushing or X400? or could it be a different problem?

 

[Agile]

Neither power flushing nor X400 are guaranteed to solve your problem and probably will not!

You cannot use the acids which would have a better chance because of the state of your system.

You will probably need to cut out the blocked parts and mechanically clean them.

We dont know what boiler you have. Its probably old and cast iron and inefficient but unlikely to have been seriously damaged by the pumping over. The X400 would help it a bit to loosen and flush some of the dirt but again only the acids would clean it properly.

If you must change the boiler make sure you dont do that until the system is completely sorted out and totally clean.

Tony

 

[j17esh]

What do you think to this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Worcester-Bos...14&_trkparms=72:1296|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318

I'm fed up with the whole lot, I think I'm going to change the boiler - that'll get rid of loads of the tanks and pipework in the loft.

I'll get 3 new rads and get it powerflushed as well...