He will leave traps and collect dead animals, with some use of poison. If the place does start to smell then at least it will be him that goes find it
Rat chewed wiring
- Thread starter trevw
- Start date
He will leave traps and collect dead animals, with some use of poison. If the place does start to smell then at least it will be him that goes find it
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Hear, hear, JohnW2. The younger generation put far too much reliance on technology. The meter says "PASS" or "FAIL" so that's it and all about it. Ever considered the possibility the meter could be faulty?
Younger generation? Another case of completely unfair generatlisation. Think before you write stupid things
It's not an really unfair - it's just a fact of life. It is obviously only the older generations who have been through the experience of having to manage with far less technological assistance than is currently available.
Sure, anyone who wanted to could try to put themslves in the shoes of the predecesors, but very many don't. How many people under the age of, say 45, could show me how to work out a square root 'by hand'?
Kind REgards, John.
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They don't, they give a value!
Only when I am not happy that the meter/tester is not functioning correctly, taking the IR tests for consideration, regular testing open and closed with croc clips during testing satisfy me.
Yes but, as I think (hope!) you were agreeing with me before, that's not the point. Even if the values from the meter are totally correct, and are totally 'OK' that does not necessarily mean that the electrical installation is at all OK. The chewed-up insulation I mentioned, which I've seen with my own eyes, is a very good example.
Kind Regards, John
"How many people under the age of, say 45, could show me how to work out a square root 'by hand'?" is a complete irrelevancy to the conversation as it won't help in testing and inspection of an electrical installation, any more than someone asking "How many people over 45 can put together a really good dub-step tune on their iphone". They are not the skills that we are needing to do the job we are discussing. Plus actually age based generalizations are insulting to all ages in particular. A younger person might refer more closely to GN3 and follow all of the inspections more than an old giffer that thinks he's known it all since the dawn of time and because he can do calculus on his slide rule is not prepared to climb under a floor board or crawl though the whole rat infested attic anymore. OR NOT - it is just unfair to generalise.
Also if you have a calibrated IR tester and you don't have a batt warning light, you open and close the clips before use and you compare to a 2nd meter in your kit - I think you can trust what it is giving you fairly well. But a trip into rat-poo land is what we all agree is really what is needed. Who is more likely to take that task on??
Also if you have a calibrated IR tester and you don't have a batt warning light, you open and close the clips before use and you compare to a 2nd meter in your kit - I think you can trust what it is giving you fairly well. But a trip into rat-poo land is what we all agree is really what is needed. Who is more likely to take that task on??
It is knowing the basics of how the calculation is done and knowing the basics of how the electrical circuit works that is missing from too many modern technicians.
Probably an old hand would take it on more readily than a modern technician with his or her mind on health and safety. ( H&S is necessary but at a level that is a safe compromise between getting the job done and preventing the job being done ).
When helping to demolish a hen house I found rat chewed and / or chicken pecked cable which had been repaired using wooden clothes pegs to keep the bare wires apart. I guess an old boy had braved the rat and chicken poo mixture to make the temporary repair and then no one else would risk the job of replacing the cable.
Perhaps not directly electrical but a point I have always made with calculators is that they are useless without at least a modicum of mental arithmetic. If you have no idea of the expected answer how do you know when you have hit the wrong key?
Steel conduit (not plastic) would be ideal.
I'm not totally sure what you mean by "all ages in particular", but I think that you are being way over-sensistive. Everyone knows that no 'generalisation' is 100% true/applicable, but that doesn't mean that it's not useful to make statements which relate to what is common (true 'on the whole') in various groups. If I were to talk about 'all young people' or 'all older people' you would be right to criticise, but you'll never see me doing that - I would always say 'many', 'most' or something like that.
It was, as I'm sure you understand, not intended to have direct relevance to electrical I&T but was an illustration that evolution of technology has resulted in changes over the generations in people's reliance on technology and understanding of the basic principles.
...and that really illustrates the point. I would be as happy to agree with that implied 'generalisation' as to the one I offered. 'On the whole', people under 45 are undoubtedly better at that. It's not unfair, insulting, patronising or discriminatory - it's just a statement of fact.
As I keep saying, my point is nothing to do with the test gear possibly giving incorrect readings. I'm saying that, in the situation which started this thread, I would not personally be comfortable to conclude that a correct IR reading of >200 MΩ, >500 MΩ or whatever meant that it was 'safe' not to lift the boards to look for possibly serious rodent damage to hidden cables. The IR tester does not know whether it is PVC or air that is resulting in the high measurement result.
Kind Regards, John
I completely agree with you John. We should remember that testing is a poor relation of inspection which is far, far more important. There is no guarantee that testing will show up such faults which is why we have an inspection and testing process (with inspection listed first as it is by far the most important part of the process!).
If it was me I'd want to see the state of all of the cables where practicable.
The sad story of Air France flight 447 being the notable modern example of that.
Air gapping is a valid form of insulation in many forms of electrical and electronic work, especially when voltages are high.
Much better to have learned your trade first, by hand, and then to use computers etc as a tool.
How many times have I seen people blindly belling out circuits with a multimeter on continuity when sticking it on ohms will tell you the same and more about the piece of wire. Often the tools maybe digital these days but working with them in analog has many advantages.
Sometimes I've asked the younger electricians what would you expect to read on a mains cable that's been turned off at the CU. Often they say nothing. If the multimeter is a decent one and autoranging then you'd always read something. And if the cable arrives in a bunch that aren't turned off it can interesting what you might read on it given the then high impedance nature of it.
To always read 'something' is a further verification that the test kit is actually still working.
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Ooh goody! Is that a new theme park?
Yes, but take your own sandwiches.
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