Registered electrician advice please

[CaptainJack88]

We've had a bit of work done on our house, and the main part involved a new kitchen.

With this, the lights have been rewired so that we have different rings and switches. In addition, we've also had a new feed put in for the hob (to the CU) and a few other bits and pieces.
Other bits around the house included swapping wall lights for down lights, or just adding more lights to an existing ring.

From the start, I knew this would have to be Part P signed off which is fine. However upon completion of the work, we are now being told that because our consumer units is 16th edition, it must be swapped to a 17th edition so that the new circuits in the kitchen can be tested and signed off as Part P.

Is this correct or are we being ripped off here? I was under the impression that any circuit, Part P sign off or not, could be tested on a "non up to date" consumer unit.

Also, if a new consumer unit is installed, this means a full house test is required, so do we also need Part P sign off for the kitchen, or is this now covered under the full house test.

Would appreciate some advice from a qualified electrician so I can find out if we're being duped for another £350-400 when a £150 Part P is enough.

Appreciate there are probably some details missing, however any general advice would be great.

 

[winston1]

There is no requirement to change things to the current regs. Could be if you changed it today it would be out of date again on Jan 1st next year with the new requirement for non combustible CUs.

 

[bubachuba]

Hi. I don't get it. Are you saying once the electrician had completed all the lighting and kitchen work he informed you require a new consumer unit?!

 

[CaptainJack88]

Correct, this is where I am confused.

For arguments sake, we knocked through a wall in the house. All the wiring in the kitchen was pretty much redone ranging from the lighting, to the plugs and cooking appliances. (Some of the old sockets stayed where they were and some new ones were spurred)

To the best of my knowledge, this would need Part P sign off which would be about £150 or so. I am now being told that because the consumer unit is 16th edition, the board will need to be upgraded to 17th edition, and then it can be Part P.

"You need all circuits in the kitchen Part P, and the consumer unit too"

Seems a bit backwards to me personally. If they replaced it with a 17th edition plastic one, are they going to say it needs to be upgraded to a metal one if I decide to do the bathroom after January 2016?

 

[EFLImpudence]

With this, the lights have been rewired so that we have different rings and switches. In addition, we've also had a new feed put in for the hob (to the CU) and a few other bits and pieces.

Lights are not normally on rings.

From the start, I knew this would have to be Part P signed off which is fine. However upon completion of the work, we are now being told that because our consumer units is 16th edition, it must be swapped to a 17th edition so that the new circuits in the kitchen can be tested and signed off as Part P.

Well, new wiring - under certain conditions - should be protected by an RCD.
One way of doing this would be to replace the CU but obviously a bit late to tell you that now.

Is this correct or are we being ripped off here? I was under the impression that any circuit, Part P sign off or not, could be tested on a "non up to date" consumer unit.

Yes, of course, it can be tested. The CU makes no difference.

Also, if a new consumer unit is installed, this means a full house test is required, so do we also need Part P sign off for the kitchen, or is this now covered under the full house test.

It would be but the kitchen should have been tested before (and after) switching on.

Would appreciate some advice from a qualified electrician so I can find out if we're being duped for another £350-400 when a £150 Part P is enough.

The kitchen and CU are separate items.
You need certificates for what has already been done.

However, the RCD protection is important and presumably they have not done that.
It all should have been discussed first.

 

[CaptainJack88]

With this, the lights have been rewired so that we have different rings and switches. In addition, we've also had a new feed put in for the hob (to the CU) and a few other bits and pieces.

Lights are not normally on rings.

No doubt my terminology. However I'm sure you know what I mean. I'm not an electrician

From the start, I knew this would have to be Part P signed off which is fine. However upon completion of the work, we are now being told that because our consumer units is 16th edition, it must be swapped to a 17th edition so that the new circuits in the kitchen can be tested and signed off as Part P.

Well, new wiring - under certain conditions - should be protected by an RCD.
One way of doing this would be to replace the CU but obviously a bit late to tell you that now.

From what I can recall, the hob for example (induction) is behind its own RCD on the CU. There was a spare slot which was used

Is this correct or are we being ripped off here? I was under the impression that any circuit, Part P sign off or not, could be tested on a "non up to date" consumer unit.

Yes, of course, it can be tested. The CU makes no difference.

Thought as much, thanks

Also, if a new consumer unit is installed, this means a full house test is required, so do we also need Part P sign off for the kitchen, or is this now covered under the full house test.

It would be but the kitchen should have been tested before (and after) switching on.

Would appreciate some advice from a qualified electrician so I can find out if we're being duped for another £350-400 when a £150 Part P is enough.

The kitchen and CU are separate items.
You need certificates for what has already been done.

However, the RCD protection is important and presumably they have not done that.
It all should have been discussed first.

The CU was obviously done when the house was built. Are you saying I need a Part P certificate for the kitchen, and then in addition, a certificate that signs off the new RCD for the hob?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Are you saying I need a Part P certificate for the kitchen, and then in addition, a certificate that signs off the new RCD for the hob?

A certificate is required for all work.

Building Inspector notification is also required for new circuits.

Depending on the installation method, an RCD may or may not be required.

 

[CaptainJack88]

OK, spoke to the electricians again.

The lighting can't currently be Part P'd because they need to be behind an RCD, but since its 16th edition and there are no slots left, it can't be done on the existing board.

 

[bubachuba]

OK, spoke to the electricians again.

The lighting can't currently be Part P'd because they need to be behind an RCD, but since its 16th edition and there are no slots left, it can't be done on the existing board.

shame they didn't advise that before doing the work! Have they given you the option to change the MCB for an RCBO?

 

[CaptainJack88]

OK.
Whenever a circuit is altered or added to it s

OK, spoke to the electricians again.

The lighting can't currently be Part P'd because they need to be behind an RCD, but since its 16th edition and there are no slots left, it can't be done on the existing board.

shame they didn't advise that before doing the work! Have they given you the option to change the MCB for an RCBO?

Wasn't there something which came into place this July saying lighting had to be behind an RCD. We had them in for first fix way before that, however had delays which mean't they couldn't do second fix until this month.
Could be why this is happened

I'll be honest, MCB, RCBO and RCD confuse me. If I've got this correct:
- Everything is on an MCB
- There is already an RCD on the board, but there are no more slots for any more MCB's or RCBO's

 

[bubachuba]

the wiring regulations have stated that buried wiring must be protected by RCD long before July. Sounds like you have an RCD protecting one side of the board, although the lighting is on the other side. Can you upload a photo of the board?

Edit: just remembered you have had sockets moved/added in the kitchen which i assume has the cable buried inside the wall which needs RCD protection which i guess why they are telling you need a new consumer unit.

 

[CaptainJack88]

the wiring regulations have stated that buried wiring must be protected by RCD long before July. Sounds like you have an RCD protecting one side of the board, although the lighting is on the other side. Can you upload a photo of the board?

I'm not at the house now, but that's exactly the situation. Half the board goes into the main switch, and half goes into an RCD. They've put what they can behind the RCD, but to get the kitchen lights on, they need to be behind an RCD which isn't possible on this board.

This isn't my photo, but the configuration of MCB and RCD's is the same:

 

[ban-all-sheds]

are we being ripped off here?

If, as per your subject, you used a registered electrician then you are without doubt being ripped off if he's charging you £150 for Building Control notification - that's of the order of 100x what it actually costs him to do, and it's something he has no choice about doing anyway - if he doesn't then he is breaking the law.

 

[CaptainJack88]

are we being ripped off here?

If, as per your subject, you used a registered electrician then you are without doubt being ripped off if he's charging you £150 for Building Control notification - that's of the order of 100x what it actually costs him to do, and it's something he has no choice about doing anyway - if he doesn't then he is breaking the law.

For Part P, isn't £150 the cost for that anyway? A number of people have said it's £150 for Part P sign off.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

No - it isn't. Seriously - if you have used a registered electrician then not only is he legally obliged to notify, the terms of membership of his scheme probably require it too, and it costs him a few quid.

 

[bubachuba]

are we being ripped off here?

If, as per your subject, you used a registered electrician then you are without doubt being ripped off if he's charging you £150 for Building Control notification - that's of the order of 100x what it actually costs him to do, and it's something he has no choice about doing anyway - if he doesn't then he is breaking the law.

For Part P, isn't £150 the cost for that anyway? A number of people have said it's £150 for Part P sign off.

it depends on the whatever your local council charge. i have heard prices from £175 - £400 plus. I think the higher the price the less likely they actually want to get involved with it.
Edit: sorry i assumed this was for building control involvement- please ignore