I recently read an article about removing some old Crittal metal window frames. There were several methods mentioned and I tried a different approach. Here is my story when I had a go at my own.
I live in an old 1948 brick built bungalow. It was, we believe, built by a farmer with very limited building skills and knowledge.
I took an old frame out a few weeks ago and having never removed one before suspected it would be a pig. I have only ever replaced wooden frames like for like before. My Crittal frames sit on an external stone sill but are sitting over the cavity, so I have narrow internal window sills. The internal window reveals are lined in painted wood with an architrave surround. The external reveals are rendering. I started by removed the screws in the accessible parts of the frame, on the openers and worked out that the fixings would be exactly opposite in the frame where the window is puttied in the frame. I had to put a blowlamp on all the screw heads as the paint was so thick and hard. I didn't fancy taking the windowpane out at the time, as I had read on this site. I used an ultra sharp wood chisel and removed the wood frame where I expected a fixing screw to be and exposed the screw. I did this 3 times so technically the metal frame should now be fixing free from the old wooden frame and in the words of a Haines manual, 'simple lift out'. How wrong could I have been. About 4 hours later, 6 cups of coffee, and nearly a broken relationship due to my bad mood, I ended up chiselling out most of the wooden frame. Eventually the metal frame loosened and came out leaving the remainder of the wood behind. It weighed quite a bit which surprised me. I also found that the original wood frame had been built into the brickwork inside as nails where driven into the frame to hold it into the internal wall coarsework. Again to avoid damaging the brickwork I had to carefully chisel away the rest of the wood from these nails, then when all the wood was out I cut the nails off. I also noticed that the frame was sitting in the cavity of the wall, there were no wall closers. Biggest spiders I have ever seen so closers would have been nice at time. And it was now that I worked out that the outer opening was larger height-wise than the inner opening. Never thought no more about that point until later. By then it was too late.
As I said earlier I have rendering on the outside of my place. I wanted a correct size window frame. So I removed the rendering to expose the brickwork in the external reveal and got a precise measurement. It wasn't hard work. I had a sheet of ply securely fixed in the gap until the window was made, missus didn't think too much about it. I also stuffed some foam sheet into the cavity to stop the big spiders from coming into the bedroom.
I measured up the gap for a new window and went to get a new one ordered. The company I used insisted I should have an external sill but I have seen them against a stone cill on other places and they look naff. I decided against the external built in sill and wanted the straight frame all around. They also offered me a vent, which when I saw how big it was decided against it as well. He said because they are replacement windows it was not compulsory.
Why did I remove the window and not have an immediate replacement?? I didn't’ trust my original measurements. I even had 2 different double-glazing surveyors round prior to starting the job myself but they just quoted to fit smaller units in to make installation easier for them. Not good enough for me I’m afraid. I am still glad I did it this way.
When the new window was done I excitedly pulled the ply away, checked measurements again and away I went. After carefully removing the foam sheet I stuffed in the cavity earlier at arms length, I fitted a PVC cavity closer which was about £11 for a 3m length from a PVC window stockist. Before I fitted the top closer I slid a 2” wall bat into place as I intend to get cavity wall fill soon and they don’t have access to above the windows as it is mostly in the soffit area. It tidied the gap up straight away. So now it was time for the new window frame. Unfortunately it was a bit tight getting in, it was also damned heavy. I had to shave about 2mm off the top of the stone sill where the unit sits. It was actually a mixture of old cement and build up of putty, paint etc from years gone by. The frame slipped in eventually and fitted perfect. Unfortunately on the inside the window sill was too high. I didn't anticipate this. The sides and top of the frame looked great but the bottom of the frame seemed very low. How very annoying. I must have stared at the problem for 30 minutes and was gutted that my plan was going wrong. I guessed I had mis-measured until I went outside and looked. The new window looked brilliant. So back inside I go, chew the missus head off as she made a 'have you tried..' comment and after another stare and scratching of the chin decided that the only option would be to carefully remove the old window sill inside. Just decorated as well, never mind. The making good inside will be a bit tricky but its only wood. And I wont be happy unless the job is right. So my advice to anybody fitting new windows with stone external stone sills be aware that you need to make an allowance to raise the bottom of the frame by about 40mm approx. Its just to take place of the sill and then it will look fine from the inside. Or you can lower the internal sill which adds to the amount of work and cost. In my case the old sills were warped and not very nice looking so they were better off replaced anyway. Also it is very useful to have an extra pair of hands. If you value your marriage its best not to use the missus as she is in the firing line when it goes wrong or she isn’t strong enough. Plus if they suggest something and they are right, and you are wrong it makes you look stupid, you just know you can’t agree with her or you will live with it for the rest of your life. And the good news is that I only have another 7 windows to go….whoopeee!!!
I live in an old 1948 brick built bungalow. It was, we believe, built by a farmer with very limited building skills and knowledge.
I took an old frame out a few weeks ago and having never removed one before suspected it would be a pig. I have only ever replaced wooden frames like for like before. My Crittal frames sit on an external stone sill but are sitting over the cavity, so I have narrow internal window sills. The internal window reveals are lined in painted wood with an architrave surround. The external reveals are rendering. I started by removed the screws in the accessible parts of the frame, on the openers and worked out that the fixings would be exactly opposite in the frame where the window is puttied in the frame. I had to put a blowlamp on all the screw heads as the paint was so thick and hard. I didn't fancy taking the windowpane out at the time, as I had read on this site. I used an ultra sharp wood chisel and removed the wood frame where I expected a fixing screw to be and exposed the screw. I did this 3 times so technically the metal frame should now be fixing free from the old wooden frame and in the words of a Haines manual, 'simple lift out'. How wrong could I have been. About 4 hours later, 6 cups of coffee, and nearly a broken relationship due to my bad mood, I ended up chiselling out most of the wooden frame. Eventually the metal frame loosened and came out leaving the remainder of the wood behind. It weighed quite a bit which surprised me. I also found that the original wood frame had been built into the brickwork inside as nails where driven into the frame to hold it into the internal wall coarsework. Again to avoid damaging the brickwork I had to carefully chisel away the rest of the wood from these nails, then when all the wood was out I cut the nails off. I also noticed that the frame was sitting in the cavity of the wall, there were no wall closers. Biggest spiders I have ever seen so closers would have been nice at time. And it was now that I worked out that the outer opening was larger height-wise than the inner opening. Never thought no more about that point until later. By then it was too late.
As I said earlier I have rendering on the outside of my place. I wanted a correct size window frame. So I removed the rendering to expose the brickwork in the external reveal and got a precise measurement. It wasn't hard work. I had a sheet of ply securely fixed in the gap until the window was made, missus didn't think too much about it. I also stuffed some foam sheet into the cavity to stop the big spiders from coming into the bedroom.
I measured up the gap for a new window and went to get a new one ordered. The company I used insisted I should have an external sill but I have seen them against a stone cill on other places and they look naff. I decided against the external built in sill and wanted the straight frame all around. They also offered me a vent, which when I saw how big it was decided against it as well. He said because they are replacement windows it was not compulsory.
Why did I remove the window and not have an immediate replacement?? I didn't’ trust my original measurements. I even had 2 different double-glazing surveyors round prior to starting the job myself but they just quoted to fit smaller units in to make installation easier for them. Not good enough for me I’m afraid. I am still glad I did it this way.
When the new window was done I excitedly pulled the ply away, checked measurements again and away I went. After carefully removing the foam sheet I stuffed in the cavity earlier at arms length, I fitted a PVC cavity closer which was about £11 for a 3m length from a PVC window stockist. Before I fitted the top closer I slid a 2” wall bat into place as I intend to get cavity wall fill soon and they don’t have access to above the windows as it is mostly in the soffit area. It tidied the gap up straight away. So now it was time for the new window frame. Unfortunately it was a bit tight getting in, it was also damned heavy. I had to shave about 2mm off the top of the stone sill where the unit sits. It was actually a mixture of old cement and build up of putty, paint etc from years gone by. The frame slipped in eventually and fitted perfect. Unfortunately on the inside the window sill was too high. I didn't anticipate this. The sides and top of the frame looked great but the bottom of the frame seemed very low. How very annoying. I must have stared at the problem for 30 minutes and was gutted that my plan was going wrong. I guessed I had mis-measured until I went outside and looked. The new window looked brilliant. So back inside I go, chew the missus head off as she made a 'have you tried..' comment and after another stare and scratching of the chin decided that the only option would be to carefully remove the old window sill inside. Just decorated as well, never mind. The making good inside will be a bit tricky but its only wood. And I wont be happy unless the job is right. So my advice to anybody fitting new windows with stone external stone sills be aware that you need to make an allowance to raise the bottom of the frame by about 40mm approx. Its just to take place of the sill and then it will look fine from the inside. Or you can lower the internal sill which adds to the amount of work and cost. In my case the old sills were warped and not very nice looking so they were better off replaced anyway. Also it is very useful to have an extra pair of hands. If you value your marriage its best not to use the missus as she is in the firing line when it goes wrong or she isn’t strong enough. Plus if they suggest something and they are right, and you are wrong it makes you look stupid, you just know you can’t agree with her or you will live with it for the rest of your life. And the good news is that I only have another 7 windows to go….whoopeee!!!
