Replacement boiler question

[montesol]

Hi,

I have an Ideal Mexico Super 2 CF100 boiler fitted and my gas bill each month is around £150. when the boiler is on, the meter wheel is zooming around. I also have a gas cooker and when this is on (without the boiler) the meter goes very slow. British Gas seem to think my boiler is not efficient and is costing me too much money.

I do live in a 5 bedroomed detatched house but the boiler is old. What would be a good (more efficient) replacement for this boiler?

I don't want to change to a condensing one as the plumbing costs for alterations would be far too much. It is a floor standing model that has a flue pipe coming out the center top of the unit so the new model would need a similar flue.

Any ideas of a suitable more efficient replacement and the cost involved including installation. I have no idea of cost so it would be great if I had a guideline.

Thanks in advance.

 

[kevplumb]

I don't want to change to a condensing one as the plumbing costs for alterations would be far too much

i think you will find you don't have a choice

 

[gas4you]

Go for the ATAG E32S and have it installed where the current boiler is at present, as long as you can get access for the condensate/prv drain. Get it fitted with the flexible flue liner so you can use your existing chimney/flue.

Can't see how you will be able to NOT have a condensing boiler really.

 

[montesol]

Hi Dave,

It's just a house layout thing involving a lot of pipework alteration. so at the moment I'll just opt for a more effeceint replacement boiler.

All views greatly appriciated in the cost of a fitted replacement.

regards
martin

 

[Kev F]

you cant fit a non condensing boiler without meeting a hell of a lot of requirements which most peoples houses will never meet, so you will most likely have to leave it or replace it properley

 

[D_Hailsham]

Only houses which meet the criteria in the Exceptions Guide can install a non-condensing boiler. When your installer notifies Gassafe or Building Control he will have to send in his assessment to show why a non-condensing boiler has been fitted.

There are floor standing Band A boilers available,e.g Ideal Mexico HE30, Worcester Greenstar FS30 CDi, but they both have a balanced flue.

What insulation, draught proofing etc do you have? With a bill of £150 per month, I suspect the answer is none. If so, you may be able to get a grant toward the cost, even if you are not on benefits. It would be worth sorting this side out as the savings are continuous and you would then be able to install a smaller boiler. Check out Energy Savings Trust Grant Search.

Changing to a Band A condensing boiler will save you about £500pa on the gas bill. Assuming your boiler costs £2500 to install, you will get your money back in five years - which is about the life of the average condensing boiler. But that does not take into account the interest lost on the capital outlay - which is pretty low at the moment - or the cost of financing a loan.

 

[montesol]

I'm not sure about the flu type, I only ever have the boiler on the thermostat setting 2 out of 6. My house has double glazing and insulation, i just wondered if somebody knows if this boiler is using too much gas.

I think the flu goes straight up the chimney in a liner.

I only have a gas boiler and a gas cooker next to each other so I don't understand what other regs would be taken into consideration on just replacing the current boiler with a similar more efficient one?
Any ideas?

 

[bengasman]

I don't want to change to a condensing one as the plumbing costs for alterations would be far too much

i think you will find you don't have a choice

I KNOW he will find he has no choice.
Not if he wants it done by a legal installer that is.

 

[bengasman]

...so I don't understand what other regs would be taken into consideration on just replacing the current boiler with a similar more efficient one?
Any ideas?

Nothing to understand about it; the government has spoken, and now it is law.

New boiler = condensing boiler.
If that is inconvenient: tough. They don't care; they have targets to meet, and if that costs you a lot more money: tough as well.

 

[montesol]

So "beingasman", That's all there is to it, New = condensing boiler.

What pipework additions need to be installed? I have 3 bathrooms and central heating and immersion heater? I take it the hot water pipes have to be re routed from the immersion cupboard to the boiler location and could I get a floor mounted condensing boiler to attach to my original flue or would it have to be a wall mounted unit on an external wall. This would mean moving the boiler location to an external wall and all pipework. Is this correct?

 

[bengasman]

No new pipework needed if you want to keep the dreadful old tanks, apart from a condensate pipe.
Wouldn't recommend a floorstanding type though.

 

[Joe4542]

montesol - you seem to be associating replacement condensing boiler with a combi?

This does not have to be the case - can have your current boiler replaced with similar one - only addition normally required would be a condense pipe.

Minimal alteration usually req'd to current piping - just re-arranging connections to fit new boiler.

 

[montesol]

Your right Joe, I was Now I don't know what a condensing boiler is compared to my one
I must seem like a right plonker but that's why I am here to find out off people who know.

so A similar type of boiler could be fitted but it has to be a condensing boiler and I take it this requires a condense pipe and a balanced flue?

As I said, my current boiler position is not on an external wall. How would a balanced flue be situated in my current flue pipe exiting the top of the boiler location? is it possible?

 

[mogget]

Your right Joe, I was Now I don't know what a condensing boiler is compared to my one

In a nutshell, combustion of natural gas produces carbon dioxide and water.

A condensing boiler extracts heat from the exhaust gas by condensing water (vapour) into water (liquid). This means that more heat goes into the heating pipework and less heat goes out the flue.

In short, you burn less gas (and produce less carbon dioxide) for the same amount of household heat.

 

[bengasman]

The best way to find out about the how and what of condensing boilers is to google it, and read a few articles about it. It is a bit of a story to type out, and there is plenty published, some of which is written in such a way that it is understandable for the general public.

The bottom line is just a higher efficiency from using "larger" heatexhcangers.