Resealing leaking shower

[DIYnoob32]

Nope no need for a raised edged deep tray, but the wall board does need to be down past the edge of the tray so when you run silicone along both tray edges and then push it against the wall it fully seals along those contact edges.


All they needed to do was run the board on the left down to the floor and the tray would then fit to that and square to the right hand wall. All that could have quite easily have been avoided by a 200mm piece of plasterboard!

If the tray doesn't have that complete wall seal then I can just about guarantee the shower will leak at some point in the future. It also ensures that if the wall is square then the tray will be too.

I'm sorry to say that I wouldn't accept that if I was the gaffer, I'd have it pulled and re-done.

Yes I will definitely be having a word with him tomorrow! Just want to be fully aware of the situation first and you've definitely helped me there

So you say they should have run the board to the floor on the left and then fit square to the right hand wall - but would the wall on the right still need plasterboard over what the tray is up against at the moment? From the attached pic after it was all ripped out, it looks like the right wall did have an additional layer of plasterboard that didn't go down to the floor, possibly down to the tray which I think had a lipped edge (the previous tray was higher also). It's just that an additional layer of plasterboard on the right I assume is prevented from going to the ground by the piping.

So in a nutshell the board on the left in that pic, they seem to have done the same on the right, but the error is pushing the tray underneath the board on the right, rather than boarding down below where the tray would sit (if not to the floor, at least down to the bottom of where the tray would sit) and putting the tray flush against that?

Sorry to ask so many questions and hope I'm understanding it right!

 

[Madrab]

Going by the picture in post #24 they have left the right hand wall as it is, once the tiles were removed and the left hand wall has new plasterboard but with a gap at the bottom.
Now if the tray has been pushed up tight to the right hand brown wall and against the metal framing on the left, not a piece of plasterboard, when tiled the tray would be out against the finished tiling. How high does the riser kit lift the tray against the size of gap at the bottom left and does the tray edge sit above the gap?

That why I asked about the sizes, you said there was 30mm either side of the shower tray lip to the tiles which would suggest it's square to the corner and each side but then you said one edge was longer than the other. If it was a normal quadrant tray then the square sides should be equal, therefore if the tray was square to the corner then the edge length would be the same as well as the gaps and then the enclosure should fit.

If one edge is longer than the other then the tray isn't square to the corner. Hence the need to check if each edge is tight against plasterboard on each side. You shouldn't be able to get anything (a screw or similar) into the gap between the tray and the framing if the tray is sitting tight to it. If you can then the tray's is sitting on the board higher up.

 

[DIYnoob32]

Going by the picture in post #24 they have left the right hand wall as it is, once the tiles were removed and the left hand wall has new plasterboard but with a gap at the bottom.
Now if the tray has been pushed up tight to the right hand brown wall and against the metal framing on the left, not a piece of plasterboard, when tiled the tray would be out against the finished tiling. How high does the riser kit lift the tray against the size of gap at the bottom left and does the tray edge sit above the gap?

That why I asked about the sizes, you said there was 30mm either side of the shower tray lip to the tiles which would suggest it's square to the corner and each side but then you said one edge was longer than the other. If it was a normal quadrant tray then the square sides should be equal, therefore if the tray was square to the corner then the edge length would be the same as well as the gaps and then the enclosure should fit.

If one edge is longer than the other then the tray isn't square to the corner. Hence the need to check if each edge is tight against plasterboard on each side. You shouldn't be able to get anything (a screw or similar) into the gap between the tray and the framing if the tray is sitting tight to it. If you can then the tray's is sitting on the board higher up.

Ah yes I see - I think they did put new plasterboard on the right side too judging by this current pic (see attached) - that plasterboard seems to be what the tiles are attached to (and that plasterboard then sits on top of the tray, and the tray goes further back and is flush to the brown wall (as mentioned I can't touch the back of the tray on the right side at all), explaining why there's not enough room for the enclosure as too much space is lost.

The left side is definitely pushed to the metal frame and I'm 99% sure plasterboard is sitting on top of the edge of the tray, hence why I can put my hand behind the tray on the left side and feel the enamel on the back, then move my hand up to the plasterboard in a totally level motion (i.e. no bump). So the plasterboard seems to be sitting on top of the tray, like the right side, but it's flush to the edge of the tray whereas it goes further back on the right (I assume because the studs stopped them doing that on the left).

Obviously it's the fitter's job to sort all this - I just want to make sure he does it right next time! I assume I need to tell him to:

(a) rip it all out
(b) plaster down to the floor on the left or at least so it will cover the back of the tray (is there any need for it to go to the floor as long as the tray sit against it?)
(c) plaster as far down as possible on the right again so it will cover the back of the tray (to the floor doesn't seem possible due to the pipes)
(d) walls tanked (is this essential?)
(e) fit the shower tray flush against the plasterboard (not underneath it...) and seal
(f) re-tile
(g) fit the enclosure and seal on the outside only as the instructions say

Sound right? Thanks so much for being so helpful!

 

[Madrab]

Basically it needs a completely square/flat corner, top to bottom. (I then tank it)
The tray then fits flat and tight to both of the walls, edges sealed up tight against the walls. Tray should now be nice and square. Tile down to the tray and then seal again. Fit enclosure (is it the right size?) and seal externally.

It isn't really rocket science and he should know when it's wrong and just get it fixed.

 

[DIYnoob32]

Basically it needs a completely square/flat corner, top to bottom. (I then tank it)
The tray then fits flat and tight to both of the walls, edges sealed up tight against the walls. Tray should now be nice and square. Tile down to the tray and then seal again. Fit enclosure (is it the right size?) and seal externally.

It isn't really rocket science and he should know when it's wrong and just get it fixed.

Yeah fair enough... I suppose it shows what little faith in him that I have to research all this myself (or just shows how neurotic I am). My main concern was whether the plasterboards had to be down to the floor due to the piping being in the way, but I'll just make sure he boards down to where the tray will fit against (not under) it squarely and make sure it's completely sealed as you say before tiling.

Thanks so much again Hopefully he's cooperative and doesn't push back.

 

[JaimieH]

I am currently fitting a bathroom which had a shower enclosure constructed the same as yours ie tray fitted tight up to studwork, boards onto tray and then tiles over this. All the waterproofing relied on a single bead of silicone at the joint with the tiles and the tray and this kept failing. They have suffered repeated leaks for years which ended up damaging the ceiling below and the floor underneath the tray was completely soaked and rotten. Unless your enclosure is taken back to studwork and built properly you'll have the same problems. As Madrab says tanking the plasterboard should be carried out too, or better still replaced with a waterproof construction board. If plasterboard is not tanked and any water manages to find its way through the tiles then the plasteboard will slowly turn soggy and lose its strength. I don't know how good your fitter is at tiling but if the standard of his other work is anything to go by I'd be concerned. Hopefully though he'll get it right next time. Good luck DIYnoob32.

 

[DIYnoob32]

I am currently fitting a bathroom which had a shower enclosure constructed the same as yours ie tray fitted tight up to studwork, boards onto tray and then tiles over this. All the waterproofing relied on a single bead of silicone at the joint with the tiles and the tray and this kept failing. They have suffered repeated leaks for years which ended up damaging the ceiling below and the floor underneath the tray was completely soaked and rotten. Unless your enclosure is taken back to studwork and built properly you'll have the same problems. As Madrab says tanking the plasterboard should be carried out too, or better still replaced with a waterproof construction board. If plasterboard is not tanked and any water manages to find its way through the tiles then the plasteboard will slowly turn soggy and lose its strength. I don't know how good your fitter is at tiling but if the standard of his other work is anything to go by I'd be concerned. Hopefully though he'll get it right next time. Good luck DIYnoob32.

Thanks Jaimie, just sent him a polite but detailed whatsapp message outlining all of these concerns and saying I think it all needs starting from scratch, so we'll see what he says. I'd be willing to take a refund and start again with someone else too but I doubt he'd accept that!

He actually outsourced the tiling to a professional tiler who did a very good job - so at least he knows that's beyond his skillset.

 

[DIYnoob32]

So the fitter responded to my (long) message within a few minutes saying 'I will work some things out and get back to you'. Not really sure what that means but at least he's not denying it - and he was probably expecting me to flag all this up.

An apology might have been nice but anyway... let's see what he comes back with.

 

[DIYnoob32]

Just an update on this... the fitter has turned very aggressive and I've had to threaten him with the county court.

Basically he offered to refund me £500 to get the situation rectified by someone else which he said would be 'more than enough'.

I asked what he saw as rectification since I said I couldn't see a solution other than starting again. He then said 'I'll come this weekend and move the tray', which seemed a very random change of heart after offering me £500.

I said that it's not as simple as that as the tray doesn't just need moving forward, it also needs raising and putting flush against the boards (because as mentioned the boards currently rest on top) so it can't be fixed without ripping out drywall, tiles etc (also mentioned moving the enclosure to its correct position may expose drilled holes so another reason why tiles may have to be ripped). All stuff I'd mentioned already.

At that point he got aggressive and said he'd offered to fix it and it doesn't matter what I think since I'm not a tiler/bathroom fitter. I said he hadn't engaged with any of the specific problems I'd raised and he just seemed to be trying to save money rather than actually rectifying the problems. On that note, all the issues I've raised in this thread (except the sealant issue at the start) have never been verified by him; he must know I'm right or he'd have wanted to see the issues for himself surely.

Anyway, my next move is to get some quotes from other tradespeople on fixing the issue. Then hopefully I'll be in a position to contact him again with more cards to play (and it won't be conversational, basically offering a settlement or going to county court).

Nightmare

 

[Madrab]

Well, the situation can be rectified by cutting out the bottom run of tiles, take the tray out, replace the board, (tank?), refit the tray (alter the waste) and seal, refit the tiles and seal again. Are there any tiles left, if not then the old tiles need cleaned back and reclaimed (fun fun, dusty and time consuming)
Now should he have been allowed to rectify it .... hmmm .... I would always want to give them the opportunity to correct and if it wasn't up to scratch then take it further, not too sure if it's gone beyond that now for you.

Depending on where you are will drive the price point for making good.

 

[DIYnoob32]

Well, the situation can be rectified by cutting out the bottom run of tiles, take the tray out, replace the board, (tank?), refit the tray (alter the waste) and seal, refit the tiles and seal again. Are there any tiles left, if not then the old tiles need cleaned back and reclaimed (fun fun, dusty and time consuming)
Now should he have been allowed to rectify it .... hmmm .... I would always want to give them the opportunity to correct and if it wasn't up to scratch then take it further, not too sure if it's gone beyond that now for you.

Depending on where you are will drive the price point for making good.

I live in the North West.

The problem for me is that I asked several times for him to clarify what he meant by 'fixing it' and as you said, I pointed out that it would mean removing tiles and refitting them (he didn't do the tiling, he outsourced that to a tiler who did a very good job). I'm pretty sure he intended somehow to move the tray forward without disturbing the tiles (maybe because both the tiles and plasterboard are sitting on top of the tray he thinks somehow he can avoid disturbing them).

Although as I said there's still possibly the issue of the shower enclosure needing to be re positioned, exposing holes?

But it was me pressing him on exactly he was intending to do, and asking him to address the specific issues I'd raised that caused the breakdown in communications. I didn't refuse him the opportunity to fix it himself, but it was when I wanted to know what his intended fix was that he refused to have that conversation.

 

[DIYnoob32]

Well it's all reached a terribly awkward impasse and he says he won't communicate with me any more and it would have to be via solicitors. I said I didn't want to go down the legal route but wanted him to explain what his proposed fix was and how it would resolve the issues I'd listed, but he just wouldn't have that conversation and implied I didn't know what I was talking about.

I do have suspicions that none of the plasterboard is tanked which I wondered might be the easiest way to justify that the job needs redoing given the BSI 2018 change but who knows - I just wondered if not adhering to this might mean the job hadn't been done with a reasonable level of care and skill as required by the Consumer Rights Act. I've asked 2 other tradesmen to come out and quote to rectify it (and confirm what's gone wrong).

Hopefully then I can write to him giving one more chance to rectify the issues (I wouldn't want that, I'd rather have the money but I suppose I don't have a choice and have to offer the option).

 

[JP_]

My plumber siloconed the back of the door frame where it meets the wall - I guess so if the silcone on the surface fails there is still some water tightness.

I am getting a silicone specialist to finish my shower, was quoted £100 to do the lot, which seems a lot, but if they do a perfect job probably worth it!

 

[SFK]

DIYNoob
Apologies for butting in with more bad news - did not see anyone else highlight this issue (amongst all the others) --
To boost its height the tray leg appears to be standing on plasterboard! Worst material ever as a spacer/shim.

Best wishes on getting this sorted.

 

[JP_]

For my shower I used Hardiebacker board, which does not disintegrate when wet, and repels some water, which was then taped and tanked with a tanking kit. Pretty sure plasterboard should not really be used in a shower? I know there is the green plasterboard, but that is not really suitable for showers.