Ring Main - Does this sound ok please ?

[TanDiy]

Hi, just wondered if I could check something with those in the know. I have an attached garage which has a double mains socket that runs directly from he distribution board which is also in the garage. This is connected to the same terminals as the down stairs ring. I currently have a freezer plugged in to one of the sockets (we also a have a fridge and freezer on the ring in the kitchen). This arrangement has been in place and working since we movedin to the house many years ago.

Question 1: does the above arrangement sound ok and safe

Question 2: The wife now wants to put a fridge in the garage as well, would it be ok to plug this in to the second socket of the double outlet so that the one double outlet would now have the fridge in one outlet and the freezer in the other. I am not sure if this is now going to be too much and whether I should move the garage sockets to their own circuit and mcb.

Question 3: ideally I need to relocate the fridge and freezer to the other side of the garage. Would it be ok to install another double outlet from the existing one ( so the new one would be in parallel to the old).

thank you very much indeed

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

1) This is fine
2) This is also fine
3) You should not extend a spur without introducing an 13A FCU before the first double socket. To do what you say you want you could replace the first double socket with a blanking plate then the FCU would not be necessary.

The thing is that the socket is a spur from the ring final which happens to come from the CU. Spurs are allowed up to one double socket, unless limited to 13A by an FCU.

 

[TanDiy]

1) This is fine
2) This is also fine
3) You should not extend a spur without introducing an 13A FCU before the first double socket. To do what you say you want you could replace the first double socket with a blanking plate then the FCU would not be necessary.

The thing is that the socket is a spur from the ring final which happens to come from the CU. Spurs are allowed up to one double socket, unless limited to 13A by an FCU.

Thank you very much indeed for the info. So, if I want to keep the original double socket as well then I can add the FCU before the first socket - is this something that I am allowed to do. I guess the other option would be to move the sockets to their own circuit. In this case I guess it would be ok to have the two double outlets without additional FCU. Thanks again for your help. really helpful.

 

[deadshort]

Hi, i would have the socket removed from the ring and make it into a radial with two double sockets protected by a 20a mcb dedicated to the fridge and freezer.


Regards,

DS

 

[JohnW2]

Hi, i would have the socket removed from the ring and make it into a radial with two double sockets protected by a 20a mcb dedicated to the fridge and freezer.

There's obviously a fair bit to be said for that, but it would probably turn non-notifiable work into notifiable work, which is something which could be of appreciable relevance to a DIYer.

Kind Regards, John

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

If you want to add a new circuit with unlimited sockets there are a number of options.

Radial 4mm² - maybe 32A MCB
Radial 2.5mm² - maybe 20A MCB
or Ring Final 2.5mm² - 32A MCB

But as J has said, it turns the job into something notifiable, and this starts to get expensive.

 

[TanDiy]

Many thanks for the responses and sorry for all the questions. I think that a separate circuit is the way to go, only downside is not knowing if it trips. Two last questions (sorry).

1. As a temporary measure - would it be ok to make an extension lead using a double outlet socket. Put the plug in to one socket of the existing double socket and plug the fridge and freezer in to the double socket on the other end. Would this overload anything. This would only be for a couple of weeks

2. I assume I am allowed to move the existing double socket but would I have to employ a qualified electrician to run a new circuit in the garage

Thank you

 

[deadshort]

Hi, you can in fact run an extension as you describe no issues with that at all.

You can also install the socket and run the cabling to the existing socket and employ an electrician to connect it and make your radial circuit.

Regards,

DS

 

[winston1]

Surely the easiest thing to do is to run the second socket as another spur back to the CU.

 

[hztm2008]

Surely the easiest thing to do is to run the second socket as another spur back to the CU.

I thought you could only have one spur or are you saying take spur from different ring. Thanks

 

[winston1]

Surely the easiest thing to do is to run the second socket as another spur back to the CU.

I thought you could only have one spur or are you saying take spur from different ring. Thanks

You can have more than one spur off a ring.
Some say you should not take 2 spurs off the same point on a ring, as you could overload part of the ring if the point was near one end and both spurs carried full load. In this case both spurs would be taken from the CU so there is no 'part of ring to overload'.

 

[securespark]

Is that recognised as good practice?

 

[Taylortwocities]

Is that recognised as good practice?

It isn't. That effectively makes it two radials protected by a 32A MCB.

As the main CU is in the garage, to avoid the "new circuit" issue, the OP could make the garage sockets part of the ring, instead of being a spur from the ring.

 

[winston1]

Is that recognised as good practice?

That effectively makes it two radials protected by a 32A MCB.

I disagree. It is two spurs off a ring protected by a 32 A MCB. A radial generally has more than one outlet.

 

[JohnW2]

Is that recognised as good practice?

It isn't. That effectively makes it two radials protected by a 32A MCB.

I think that the only sense in which is could possibly be regarded as 'not good practice' is that it involves having 4 conductors in an MCB terminal, but that's probably not a real concern (most people would accept 3 x 2.5mm² conductors without batting an eyelid, and the total capacity of MCB terminals is usually specified as 25mm² or 35mm²). As winston has pointed out, the concern that some people have about two spurs originating from the same point on a ring does not exist when the origin is at the CCU. One (single or double) socket fed by 2.5mm² cable which is protected by a 32A ring is regarded as fully acceptable as a 'spur' from a ring circuit OR radial circuit (per Appendix 15), and that's no less true if there are two of them originating from the same point.

As the main CU is in the garage, to avoid the "new circuit" issue, the OP could make the garage sockets part of the ring, instead of being a spur from the ring.

That would certainly be the best approach, and ought to be easy to implement. As a halfway measure, the first (existing) socket could be made part of the ring, and a new one taken as a spur from it.

Kind Regards, John