Should EDF be supplying household earth for free or fee?

[al4567]

Pensioners in Croydon in a 1930-ish house are having a new kitchen installed and the old wire fuse-box replaced with a modern consumer unit.... that's all good

To do that the house needs a new earth supplied. EDF are to do it, and requested about £280 as a fee. Discount for pensioners was asked about, refused and accepted as the way it was.
The electrician who is to install the consumer unit was shocked that they were to be charged and said it should be done for free? Asking around rumours came up that this was indeed free outside of London, but not inside. And that they should qualify for a free install as they were pensioners.

Can anyone advise me what is the real situation?

Many thanks.

 

[Colin Brenton]

I'm sure a proper sparks will be along with a better answer soon, but my understanding is that if the board supplied an earth previously, they are obliged to maintain it in good order (one assumes without charge, as it is part of their property?). However, if they haven't previously supplied one, they are under no obligation to do so now.

Have I got this right guys?, it's been a while since I've dealt with this type of thing.

Take this for what it's worth, and get it confirmed before relying on it

Cheers,
Colin

 

[Steve]

The DNO dont care who the supply is for. They have a set list of prices. But every DNO is different and prices vary widely. The system stinks. Live with it.

 

[flameport]

What exactly was the £280 for, and what is wrong with the existing earth connection?

If there is no DNO supplied earth, or an existing TNS is to be changed to TNCS then it is likely they would charge for this.
If an existing connection is now defective, then they should repair it without charge.

Being old does not mean you get a discount on everything either. It's the same work, so the price will be the same.

 

[RF Lighting]

I'm sure a proper sparks will be along with a better answer soon, but my understanding is that if the board supplied an earth previously, they are obliged to maintain it in good order (one assumes without charge, as it is part of their property?). However, if they haven't previously supplied one, they are under no obligation to do so now.

Have I got this right guys?, it's been a while since I've dealt with this type of thing.

Take this for what it's worth, and get it confirmed before relying on it

Cheers,
Colin

Yep, thats absoloutly spot on.

As has already been asked, why is the new earth required anyway?

 

[aptsys]

And what's wrong with a TT supply?

 

[echoes]

That is the price that Brian at EDF quotes on the phone for upgrading from 'no supplied earth' to a TN-S earth. To use his phrase: "Put a clamp on". That's £280 for about 30 minutes work and a new fuse cut-out. Nice work if you can get it.

 

[riveralt]

As mentioned above - what price will the electrician charge to fit a TT system? Does that beat £280. Whichever way you go you will need an earth.

If you go down the DNO route try and get an isolator fitted at the same time they might do it for free - otherwise the DNO will have to come out twice, once to remove the fuse and then to reconnect later.

 

[1john]

Sounds like an upgrade on a TT system, which in my experience, if the poles have an earth drop on them then they take a loop reading, if it is under .35 then they apply a sticker and relieve you of £80 around here! It used to be free though

 

[ericmark]

It's the way you ask. If you ask the DNO what supply should I have. They are duty bound to tell you. Often they don't have a clue so only way is to send some one to inspect. If when they arrive you point out all the other houses have TN-C-S often they will also make yours TN-C-S as in theory all properties from same transformer which are close together should have same type of earth. Otherwise touching a down pipe on two houses could cause you to get a shock. Which is why expensive to change as not only your house but many others need changing at same time.

 

[securespark]

That is the price that Brian at EDF quotes on the phone for upgrading from 'no supplied earth' to a TN-S earth. To use his phrase: "Put a clamp on". That's £280 for about 30 minutes work and a new fuse cut-out. Nice work if you can get it.

Many subterranean TT supplies I have seen look like TN-S but without anything attached to the sheath. IME, you can attach a pipe clamp to the cable but you won't get an earth connection as there is no (or very poor) continuity.

There are 100's of these in Staffordshire.

 

[al4567]

Thanks guys for your responses. I was told last night that there was no earth fitted, so therefore it makes sense that a charge is made to put one in rather than repair an existing one for free. However I'll check what was done today if I can. There was previously a little conversation about "was there a lead water pipe coming in to the property?" as that would make it easier? If someone could enlighten me about that I'd be greatful!

As regarding them being pensioners, if they were required to pay for it they were happy to do so, they just want to know they have been treated fairly. They are 77 and 82, and have a very small amount of savings as a buffer, so need to watch the pennies. You might think "well they can afford a new kitchen!", but it's modest as kitchens go, and their Daughter has taken a loan to pay for it for them.

 

[JohnD]

A photo of the incoming cable, company fuse, and consumer unit ("fusebox") and any cables around and between them, especially bare ones, or green or green and yellow insulated, might spark more ideas.

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=129539

Once upon a time, a metal water pipe was allowed to be used as an main earth point, but this has not been the case for many years. However you still have to bond incoming metallic services.

 

[sparkybird]

EDF will only upgrade a poor earth if you can prove that they originally supplied it. That's the trick! They used to view clamps on the sheath as supplied by them but now they want to see a sweated on earth. Since
98 % of the houses I see have the clamps this makes it very lucrative for EDF, eh?

The £280 charge is for sweating on an earth - as someone else pointed out, lots of £ for little work.

BTW I have heard it from one of their engineers that they are told to make it as difficult as possible for customers to get anything for free.

I would imagine that the OP's customers used to be earthed on the water pipes, but as most of London's Victorian pipes are now plastic, then the earth had gone (not that you can use it now anyway....)

 

[ban-all-sheds]

BTW I have heard it from one of their engineers that they are told to make it as difficult as possible for customers to get anything for free.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/features/you-and-yours/contact-us/