Putting words in bold and/or capitals doesn't alter the fact that it's your opinion, not mine.FingRinal said:What danger is there in NORMAL use? The answer is there are NONE in NORMAL use.That's your opinion, not mine.FingRinal said:There is no danger from an electric shower in NORMAL use.
Any specific danger that means that being in, or out of, the shower, is an irrelevant detail.What specific danger is there from an electric shower from a user perspective in NORMAL use that would warrant a separate means of emergency switching that would be quicker and easier to operate than stepping out of the shower?
In your definition of the world, the pull cord isolating switch has no virtue. My world is different.This incident you describe is not idicative of NORMAL use. It is indicative of a FAULT.
You appear to think that I appear to think things that I don't think and have not said. At no point have I said that the people in the smoke-filled room incident entered a bathroom.Also, you appear to think than entering the bathroom (the location of the fault and the smoke and the HAZARD) in order to operate the switch is safer than taking a minute to remove a bits of junk to gain access to the CU??
Foreseeability of circumstances is a key element of the law governing negligence and duty of care. A safe installation is one that is safe in all foreseeable circumstances.There is no Regulation that governs how peopl store items in their house. If people want to remove batteries from smoke alarms or put junk in front of the their CU, that's their look out.
I would never wish for that, so we share that lack of wish.You might wish for the cord of a pull switch to drop down into the shower area with the switch located directly above it, but I wouldn't, even if the ceiling were high enough for Zone 3.
If I remove the double negative from that statement, it implies that you think I can see that it is an additional hazard. Why would that surprise you?You can't see that having a pull cord switch so close to the shower that it can be operated without having to reach out of the shower or step out of the shower is not an additional hazard? CRICKEY!!Frankly, I don't see how a pull cord switch presents an additional hazard.And would placing the means of isolation in such a place INCREASE the risk to the user?
I was asking which set of standards you're using to determine that it's "good practice to install a DP shower switch in close proximity to the shower location." (sic.). "Your for staters" isn't any kind of answer to that question.Your for staters it would appear.According to which set of standards?In the absence of specific instructions (specific needs), it is common practice and good practice to install a DP shower switch in close proximity to the shower location.
I really don't see it as being within my remit to provide you with enlightenment, so I humbly decline that request.Enlighten meWell you might not be, but I am.But there is not a specific Reg which requires this. And if there were specific needs for a shower installation (i.e. for a special need case) we would not be talking about a bog standard shower installation in a bod standard house used by ordinary people.
If that somewhere else is readily accessible, then yes.Then it can be somewhere else can't it?Anyone who needs to use the switch.Readily accessible to whom?
Showers aren't used to heat up chip fat. Cookers are usually on the same floor level as the CU. I don't accept your implied corollary.You talk in forked tongue. Can't run to the CU to switch off the shower, but we can run to the CU to switch off the cooker???
Chip pans are not spherical.Plus let't not expand the pedantry in the sphere of chip pans - it was just an illustration that in NORMAL use, a cooker can present a hazard. In NORMAL use a shower doesn't.
Perhaps you're someone who believes that adhering to BS7671 makes it impossible to produce an unsafe installation. I'm not of that opinion.There is nothing UNSAFE about a shower switch not being in the bathroom or just outside because there is not specific BS7671 Reg to say that a shower requires a means of emergency switching.
You think one thing, and I think a different thing. That's isn't a problem, it's just a fact.The main problem is that people don't understand that the Wiring Regs were not written specifially for the Domestic sphere of electrical installations.
Be so kind as to tell us exactly WHAT danger we can expect from an electric shower in NORMAL use?
In the same way that you are, I suppose I am.Lawd..you still picking over it are you?
I'm merely responding to the points that you raised.Perhaps you can stick to the OP instead of trying to cleverly side-track so as to cover your tracks.
If you think there's no danger, then that's fine by me. It isn't my mission in life to persuade you of anything.Be so kind as to tell us exactly WHAT danger we can expect from an electric shower in NORMAL use?
You're getting a bit hung up on the word "emergency". If you believe that a DP switch near the CU, on a different floor level, is adequate provision for isolation in all circumstances, then by all means please go ahead and use that method in all of your installations. I prefer to take a different approach.Can you do this please? Then expand this answer to show why EMERGENCY switching is required for a domestic electric shower.
Why oh why do you think a domestic electric shower requires emergency switching?
Please show me any shower instructions which refer to 'emergency' switching?
Put a waterproof EMERGENCY STOP button IN your shower cubicle if you need it.
By all means put one outside the bathroom door if you think that's a better place than behind the boxes of Christmas decorations.Or put one outside the bathroom door.
You brought up cookers, not me.And????Cookers are usually on the same floor level as the CU.
The NICEIC guidance is irrelevant.FingRinal said:The NICEIC have this to say on the matter...
Why? In what circumstances would it not be "preferable".it may be preferable for the shower switch to be located closer to the bathroom
Yeah there is: 476-03-04....there IS NOT a specific BS7671 Regulations that requires it.
The NICEIC guidance is irrelevant.FingRinal said:The NICEIC have this to say on the matter...
Why? In what circumstances would it not be "preferable".it may be preferable for the shower switch to be located closer to the bathroom
Yeah there is: 476-03-04....there IS NOT a specific BS7671 Regulations that requires it.
What is an example of circumstances where it's not preferable?It would NOT be preferable when it is NOT prefered. Simple!Why? In what circumstances would it not be "preferable".FingRinal said:it may be preferable for the shower switch to be located closer to the bathroom
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