I have just removed 3 wall lights from an office, so that i didnt have to take the MCB out at the board and cause inconvenience to others i took the outgoing live wire out of the mk grid switch i then checked the terminals at the lights to ensure safety but go a reading of around 50volts ? why?
strange voltage reading
- Thread starter markymark2406
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Quite probably capacitive coupling from the nearby switchfeed to the switchwire, same thing causes CFLs to flicker when switched off from time to time
Should've connected disconnected switchwire down to earth
I'll not mention EWAR '89 and how it fits with pulling a live switch forward to drop a switchwire out of it....
Should've connected disconnected switchwire down to earth
I'll not mention EWAR '89 and how it fits with pulling a live switch forward to drop a switchwire out of it....
If you have to ask this question are you competant enough to even consider (foolishly) working on an energised grid switch
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yes a fully qualifyed spark, the office is in a hospital so disruption has to be kept to a minimum
Why don't you know the answer to your own question if you are a fully qualified commercial electrician?
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I can sense the odour of rattus rattus here...
Disruption to a minimum: fine. Do it in a luch hour. or have a five minute break, whatever.
Working live: not fine.
What about HSW 1974, EAW 1989?
Disruption to a minimum: fine. Do it in a luch hour. or have a five minute break, whatever.
Working live: not fine.
What about HSW 1974, EAW 1989?
I have to agree with others, when working on general lighting circuits I can't think of a situation where live working is justified.
hospitals tend to have one large board for each ward.. this has lights, sockets, nurse call power supplies and so on..
no such thing as a lunch break in a hospital.. they tend to run 24/7/365(6)
some of these boards are old types that you don't want to be messing about in while they are live.. ( all sorts of nasty exposed busbars and so on.. ).
baring a catastrophic failure ( IE the boards or feed cables melting ), these boards are always powered, even in a power cut when the hospital goes over to the gennies...
not sure on the exact wording but I'm prety sure that the HSW says that you should not work on live circuits "where practical"..
sometimes you have to do it live..
under the circumstances, taking the switched live out with the switch off ( and thus the wire in question being dead.. ) was the best course of action.
no such thing as a lunch break in a hospital.. they tend to run 24/7/365(6)
some of these boards are old types that you don't want to be messing about in while they are live.. ( all sorts of nasty exposed busbars and so on.. ).
baring a catastrophic failure ( IE the boards or feed cables melting ), these boards are always powered, even in a power cut when the hospital goes over to the gennies...
not sure on the exact wording but I'm prety sure that the HSW says that you should not work on live circuits "where practical"..
sometimes you have to do it live..
under the circumstances, taking the switched live out with the switch off ( and thus the wire in question being dead.. ) was the best course of action.
The actual wording is as follows
So is it unreasonable in all the circumstances to isolate the lighting circuit whilst it is worked on? Were precautions in place for others in the vacinity etc etc etc.
If disconnecting the lighting circuit in question will cause other lights to be isolated then is there anything stopping temporary lighting being installed? Who carried out the risk assessment and what did it say?
edit, practical should have read practicable
This is an absolute regulation, not an as reasonably practicable one.EAWR said:
So is it unreasonable in all the circumstances to isolate the lighting circuit whilst it is worked on? Were precautions in place for others in the vacinity etc etc etc.
If disconnecting the lighting circuit in question will cause other lights to be isolated then is there anything stopping temporary lighting being installed? Who carried out the risk assessment and what did it say?
edit, practical should have read practicable
probably going to make me look foolish here, but at no point does he say he worked live..
he says that the took the outgoing wire out of the gridswitch to prevent having to remove the breaker.. ( and hence work in a live board or isolate the ward )
no where does he say he didn't switch said breaker off.....
and your comment of "This is an absolute regulation, not an as reasonably practical one" directly oposes the regulation you quoted..
points A and B of the regulation both metion the word reasonable
he says that the took the outgoing wire out of the gridswitch to prevent having to remove the breaker.. ( and hence work in a live board or isolate the ward )
no where does he say he didn't switch said breaker off.....
and your comment of "This is an absolute regulation, not an as reasonably practical one" directly oposes the regulation you quoted..
points A and B of the regulation both metion the word reasonable
The regulation is absolute, i.e. you must pull out all the stops comply with it. For live working to be undertaken it must be unreasonable in all circumstances for it to be dead; I'd question wether or not it was unreasonable to isolate to work on a lighting circuit.
It is reasonable to work on or near it whilst it is live; has he been trained in live working, has any necessary precautions been taken to limit access to the area etc, rubber mats, ppe etc. I think it is a fair assumption that he means turn off the power to the circuit, I think most people here read it that way. Is removing a wire from a light switch (with at least one powered live conductor in it) an approved method of undertaking an isolation?
It is reasonable to work on or near it whilst it is live; has he been trained in live working, has any necessary precautions been taken to limit access to the area etc, rubber mats, ppe etc. I think it is a fair assumption that he means turn off the power to the circuit, I think most people here read it that way. Is removing a wire from a light switch (with at least one powered live conductor in it) an approved method of undertaking an isolation?
Hi all,
Im in no way, shape or form a sparky, but I do have some knowledge of health and safety, especially HSWA 74.
There is a statutory obligation obligation which clearly states that live working is prohibited unless:
* It is unreasonable in all circumstances for it to be dead; and
* It is reasonable in all circumstances for those carrying out the work to be on or near it whilst it is live; and
* Suitable precautions (including where necessary the provision of suitable protective equipment) are taken to prevent injury.
In laymans terms, I take this to mean that live working is a big no-no unless there is no another way to carry out the work. Even then, it will probably not be possible due to other pieces of legislation contained in HSWA.
Hope this helps
Im in no way, shape or form a sparky, but I do have some knowledge of health and safety, especially HSWA 74.
There is a statutory obligation obligation which clearly states that live working is prohibited unless:
* It is unreasonable in all circumstances for it to be dead; and
* It is reasonable in all circumstances for those carrying out the work to be on or near it whilst it is live; and
* Suitable precautions (including where necessary the provision of suitable protective equipment) are taken to prevent injury.
In laymans terms, I take this to mean that live working is a big no-no unless there is no another way to carry out the work. Even then, it will probably not be possible due to other pieces of legislation contained in HSWA.
Hope this helps
section A is in effect since it's unreasonable to turn out the lights in a working hospital ward
I would submit that under the circumstances, section C is in effect if he's not working in a public area ( office ) and given the item being worked on ( a light switch.. ) as his person is enough of an obstacle to prevent accidental contact form anyone else...
I also submit that the following excert from the regulation makes the regulation not applicable.. ."(other than one suitably covered with insulating material so as to prevent danger)" since the live conductor is insulated, and the terminals are made in such a way to prevent the accidental contact of the terminals..
I DO enjoy these little debates we sometimes get into over the interpretation of regulations...
I would submit that under the circumstances, section C is in effect if he's not working in a public area ( office ) and given the item being worked on ( a light switch.. ) as his person is enough of an obstacle to prevent accidental contact form anyone else...
I also submit that the following excert from the regulation makes the regulation not applicable.. ."(other than one suitably covered with insulating material so as to prevent danger)" since the live conductor is insulated, and the terminals are made in such a way to prevent the accidental contact of the terminals..
I DO enjoy these little debates we sometimes get into over the interpretation of regulations...
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