structural wall

[gravitate]

We have a company Broadbent and Sons part of this: . They are going to knock down a structural wall in our house between our kitchen and our dining room. They came round first and gave us a quote for 1k. When the guy came back again we pointed out that where he was going to put one side of the beam was not supported by bricks. He then said it would have to have a longer beam and we can only do it if the wall that divides ours and the neighbors hous has a double layer so they can position the beam on it. He then came back and said they could modify the cellar steps, buid a pillar and rest the beam on there but it would cost around 1.8k
We said ok even though we thought it was a bit wierd he never saw the fact the beam could not be supported on his first visit. As it seams a big company we said ok no problem and they should start next week. But we have noticed that the wall they are going to remove is suporting out stair case. Thjis was not mentioed to us verbally or in the written quotation. What will happen when they come to do it and realise this? We have not had a structural Engineer round only the projec manager of the company. We have paid £175 to the company to apply for permission from the council. Does this sound a bit fishy to anyone else? Does anyone have any advice please?

ps I am not a spammer I am in Libya at the moment working and my wife is in the uk now ready for the builders to come round. Had to say that because I asked the same question on another forum and got accused of being a 'spammer' Well I am not I promise.

 

[RedHerring2]

Does this sound a bit fishy to anyone else? Does anyone have any advice please?

ps I am not a spammer I am in Libya at the moment working and my wife is in the uk now ready for the builders to come round. Had to say that because I asked the same question on another forum and got accused of being a 'spammer' Well I am not I promise.

Definitely looks fishy to me. Why include the web site link?
Perhaps if you removed the web link you'll demonstrate that you're not a spammer. Surely your experience has already taught you one lesson.

 

[gravitate]

took away link. i only put link on to show how it looks like a decent company

 

[RedHerring2]

From your previous post ( //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=237932 ) you already know that this is notifiable work and requires the input of a SE. From others' posts you may have learned that it is the house owner's responsibility to ensure that the appropriate notice/permission has been given/applied for, even if you don't actually do it yourself. So why not ask your local authority? If the answer is "no knowledge of any notice" you can chase up the builders. If they are as reputable as you seem to believe I'm sure they'll reassure you with some copies of notice/permissions etc.

Incidentally, how many quotes did you have or how many buidlers did you consult?

 

[^woody^]

The wall dividing your house and the neighbours is most likely a double layer and so I can't see why it can't be used

But I can't work out, what you are actually asking in terms of the "fishiness"?

It is very fishy that the price should jump 80% though. No competent builder should underquote by that much for something so obvious. If anything, they should have put a warning in the quote to tell you that more work may be necessary and give an estimate of what it may be and what it may cost

 

[joinerjohn]

The wall dividing your house and the neighbours is most likely a double layer and so I can't see why it can't be used

Woody, when you say double layer, do you mean two single bricks thick or four?
If it's only two, the builders could only take out one single brick and that wouldn't leave enough bearing for a beam. If they took two out they'd be into the next door neighbours.

 

[^woody^]

Yes double layer = 1 brick thick or 9". I've used the OP's terminology

A beam will happily sit on a 100mm bearing in most domestic loading situations.

I can't see how this property would not have at least a 9" wall as the party wall, and so unless there are other details not mentioned, the beam should be able to sit on the party wall

Come to think of it, has this "decent company" informed the OP that the Party Wall Act will apply?

 

[joinerjohn]

Dunno about the 100mm bearing these days. I thought it was more? I seem to remember somewhere it went up to 125mm now or even more?
Perhaps old age setting in. I'll check it out.

 

[joinerjohn]

Just did a quick search on the internet. Seems the minimum bearing these days is 150mm. I even found this from our own hosts site.
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=229182
and this on another site
http://4kconstruction.co.uk/blog/making-a-structural-opening-in-a-wall-how-to-do-a-knock-through
If this is the case, how does the OP's builder make the bearing for the beam??

 

[gravitate]

We had a quote from 2 other builders and they were the same price. I am just concerned because the builders we have gone with have overlooked 2 major problems. 1 they have sorted out but with regards to the stair case they still dont know?!?! If they have given us a written quote then will they be able to ask us more money to support the stair case somehow?

 

[gravitate]

ps the reason they are building a column is for the support of the beam but this will cause a lot of modifications to the cellar steps.

 

[RedHerring2]

If you've had three quotes and they're all about the same price, it seems highly unlikely that three different builders will overlook the same issue.
Why not raise it with them?

Have you contacted the BCO to ensure the notice has been submitted?

You could ask the builder if you can see the SE calculations. I'm not sure, but I think these would have to be submitted to the BCO. I also suspect the building of the pier would have been part of those SE calculations.

If you have a written quotation, and there is no caveat about unforeseen work, then I think you would have a strong case of not paying any extra, but I'm no legal expert, and it isn't my house that could be left as a 'building site'.

 

[^woody^]

Just did a quick search on the internet. Seems the minimum bearing these days is 150mm. I even found this from

Minimum bearing is whatever the beam or lintel will bear - there is no set dimension.

For lintels building control ask for 150mm but in reality the lintel manufacturer will say 100mm under normal loading

A steel beam can have 100mm too if the calculations and padstone/bearing plate are acceptable

However the bearing can be less in certain situations

Many people think that a pier is required to give the beam a better bearing. This is just laziness and who wants a pier when a nice flush wall will do?