The Infamous Potterton Profile 50e

[Dannyg78]

I have noticed water pumping out of the venting pipe,

this will be bringing in entrained air. Turn down the pump speed until it no longer comes out.

added chemicals before re filling.

If the chemicals included a sludge-loosener, the circulating water should have gone black with loosened sludge, and the magnet in the Magnaclean should be smothered in the stuff. Take out the magnet, and scrape the sludge off the sleeve (you might like to scrape it into a jar to see how much there is). What chemical did you use?

Both the flow & return pipes are hot yes.

Then the hot water must be going somewhere. If the Return pipe is hotter than ALL the radiators, perhaps you have a bypass, or perhaps it is going through the vent pipe instead of round the rads

basically the boiler, pump, cylinder is in my bathroom up stairs so the pump is having to move the water over three floors, downstairs and then up another level to the loft. Not sure if that answers the question about another paior of flow return pipes?

No, I want to know if pipes are going out of the top of the boiler and going upwards, in addition to the pipes that are going downward.

Have you turned off the hot rads yet?

Edited: A Boiler Buddy is not a Magnaclean and I don't have experience of how to empty the sludge out of it.

i used sanitech x100, well i think thats the name of it, i'm in the process now of turning the warm rads off and cleaning the magnaclean - will report back. the magnet does have a fair amount of crap in it.

The pipes coming out of the boiler only go down, except the flow pipe which does go down but has the overflow pipe extending the other way to the expansion tank.

Whats a by pass John ? and how do i get rid?

 

[SpecialK]

So from the bottom of the loft radiator to the bottom of the lowest radiator are we talking 6-7 meters?

 

[Dannyg78]

So from the bottom of the loft radiator to the bottom of the lowest radiator are we talking 6-7 meters?

sorry no....say 4 metres

 

[Dannyg78]

right...bloody hell this is doing my head in, surely CH can't be that much of a mine field.

Just turned all the warm rads back on as it didn't alter the cold rads downstairs at all.

 

[SpecialK]

A bypass valve will go between the feed and return of your central heating pipes. If this is open all the time the water will just loop around it. It acts as protection to the boiler and pump if all your TRV's close.
It can either be a gate valve or an automatic valve.

Can you try flushing the system - if the pump is new and is getting full voltage then there must be a restriction in the pipework?.

 

[Dannyg78]

i'm spending a fair bit of cash on chemicals this year but if it needs to be done then I'll flush it. I take it, you flush the system be releasing the water out of the drain tap but keeping the top tank tap running (ballcock not tied up)!?

lol - how do i flush the system?

 

[tamz]

i'm spending a fair bit of cash on chemicals this year

My youngest brother is doing this too and if he doesn't stop i'm going to kick his c..t in

 

[Dannyg78]

i'm spending a fair bit of cash on chemicals this year

My youngest brother is doing this too and if he doesn't stop i'm going to kick his c..t in

will this sort it though tamz? i think i must be nearly there now, plus it hasn't been flushed since changing the pump last night!?

if that makes a difference

 

[JohnD]

i used sanitech x100, well i think thats the name of it,

I am very anxious to know the correct name of the chemical you added. For example, Sentinel X100 is a chemical which reduces future corrosion, but does not loosen existing sludge.

I would not support washing the chemicals out of the system until after you have added cleaning chemical and given it time to work.

I am puzzled that you turned off the hot radiators and say the cold ones did not warm up. Was there then no hot rad in the house? Was the flow and return to the cylinder unusually hot at this time? Is the pump surprisingly hot?

 

[Dannyg78]

i used sanitech x100, well i think thats the name of it,

I am very anxious to know the correct name of the chemical you added. For example, Sentinel X100 is a chemical which reduces future corrosion, but does not loosen existing sludge.

I would not support washing the chemicals out of the system until after you have added cleaning chemical and given it time to work.

I am puzzled that you turned off the hot radiators and say the cold ones did not warm up. Was there then no hot rad in the house? Was the flow and return to the cylinder unusually hot at this time? Is the pump surprisingly hot?

Hi John, yes it was sentinel x100 i thought that was the right chemical, the guy in B&Q advised !! I turned off all the warm rads and none of the existing cold ones did not get warm. Both the flow and return pipes were hot as was the pump.

 

[JohnD]

Sentinel X400 is the mild sludge-loosener that you need.

You will be astonished at how much sludge comes out after you have got it circulating. Same price as the X100 and no need to drain out all the X100 before you add X400.

If you closed all the hot radiators, and water continued to circulate through the pump, then either it was all going through the cylinder coil, or it was pumping over the vent pipe into the F&E, or it was going through a bypass. You will have to work out which it is by feeling the pipes to see where they are hot.

A bypass is a pipe, usually with a manual control valve on it, that bridges the flow and the return pipes and releves pressure by allowing a little flow when everything else is shut.

I see you have a cylinder stat, so there is probably a motorised valve, perhaps a 3-port, that takes the water from (or to) the boiler and divides it between the cylinder circuit and the radiator circuit. A 3-port valve is "T" shaped, brass, with a squarish metal cover over the electric motor. It has a cable going to it. It will usually be close to the pump and/or boiler. When the cylinder stat is satisfied, the valve should close the cylinder circuit so that no more hot flow goes to it.

 

[Dannyg78]

ok, i'll go buy some 400 then. Will that still remove the sludge out of the cold rads as surely water isn't circulating round them if they're cold!?

I do have a motorised valve, it's on the third picture.

Do you not recommend flushing the system, will that not solve the problem?

 

[JohnD]

if there is a total blockage, and no circulation, then the chemical will not flow through that part. you will have to work out where the blockage is and cut it out (but a mains-pressure flush might shift it, if it doesn't cause your old radiators to leak). A magnet will stick to the copper pipes where they have a lump of iron oxide sediment inside.

give the cleaning chemical a chance first. it will do nothing but good. After the buddy has stopped filling up with sludge, turn off the hot rads and see if you get any circ through any of the cold ones.

Try turning off all rads except one to get maximum cleaning flow through that rad, then close it and open the next.

Feel the 3-port valve and see if it is cutting off flow to the cylinder once HW is set to off, or the cyl is hot. If it doesn't, then the cylinder is stealing flow that should be going through the rads.

Look at the F&E tank and see if the pumping over has stopped (turn down the pump speed to help)

If all else fails, a professional powerflush will move a lot of sediment, at a cost of some hundreds of pounds, but it may still be necessary to cut out any totally blocked pipes

see FAQ 6, 10, 17, 21 and 26 and the others
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also 8 on //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=37170