The NHS just be honest ....

[SirGalahad]

Dr's make errors but in a medical setup you have checks and balances. What happens is that to cut costs there is less staff to do conduct oversight. Staff are working longer shifts and at handovers things can be missed.

When you stretch services to the point of breaking mistakes will happen.

 

[Brigadier]

Dr's make errors but in a medical setup you have checks and balances. What happens is that to cut costs there is less staff to do conduct oversight. Staff are working longer shifts and at handovers things can be missed.

When you stretch services to the point of breaking mistakes will happen.

That's simply avoiding the unpalatable truth.
"State Institutions" were renowned for circling the wagons / looking after their own / covering up, long before "Austerity".

 

[sodthisforfun]

To be honest, I think you're both right. The NHS is skint, lack of staff and work bloomin hard and under pressure.. And they are also one of the worst big boys clubs going.

 

[Notch7]

more litigation isnt the solution.

All that does is make lawyers rich

I think some countries have a 'no fault' compensation route, which allows fast resolution, quick payout and no lawyers.

The current situation is that the NHS wont admit liability to avoid admitting liabilty, result -a long drawn out legal battle. It means the NHS managers keep quiet, the claimant is kept in the dark and never gets an apology.

 

[JP_]

Tragic story, but totally understandable. People are leaving the NHS because of the constant scrutiny and blame culture that goes on. I wouldn't call that a cover up, just how people talk in those situations. People say stuff off the record all the time that would lose them their job if recorded and replayed later. Terrible that a child died, but that is why we have hospitals, to try to save people. What is the alternative? Seems another attack on the NHS, an organisation of 1.5 million people, because a few we heard having a conversation that they don't understand why the patient was not given medicine sooner. Nobody said specifically that the medicine was refused, did they? Just that medicine was not given as soon as it could have been.

 

[durhamplumber]

I'm of the opinion that the NHS would be better if people were actually made aware that they can sue a doctor for gross negligence. Likewise someone that is assaulted by a police constable can sue the police constable, but most people are not made aware or even know about their rights in the event they are mistreated. I think there are a lot of terrible police and terrible doctors out there and the only way to hold them to account is by the wallet.

There are good and bad people in every professsion the world over.I certainly do not think the answer is down to educating people in how to sue everyone for everything

 

[durhamplumber]

You don't need a lawyer to sue.

Also, don't you think it would force these so called professionals to act more responsibly? You don't think it would weed out the bad apples thereby improving the service ? Think about this. ..

Thought about it..no,,its stupid idea

 

[SirGalahad]

That's simply avoiding the unpalatable truth.
"State Institutions" were renowned for circling the wagons / looking after their own / covering up, long before "Austerity".

Private corporations like to hide the truth as well, Bankers, Exxon, World Com etc

This cover up has nothing to do with Austerity so that's spurious. The case in point the staff are not negligent. The issue is the lack of clarity which should be investigated.

 

[SirGalahad]

To be honest, I think you're both right. The NHS is skint, lack of staff and work bloomin hard and under pressure.. And they are also one of the worst big boys clubs going.

The big boy club you are referring to the administrators who only focus is on meeting targets because of the idea of an internal market in the NHS so they focus on coding. Many of these big boys come from the private sector and then Swan back.

 

[sodthisforfun]

The big boy club you are referring to the administrators who only focus is on meeting targets because of the idea of an internal market in the NHS so they focus on coding. Many of these big boys come from the private sector and then Swan back.

Docs close ranks. I've been a victim of it myself, twice.
I also know 4 people who work in the NHS, one of those is a consultant. She was shocked when she started working how bad it is.

 

[SirGalahad]

Tragic story, but totally understandable. People are leaving the NHS because of the constant scrutiny and blame culture that goes on. I wouldn't call that a cover up, just how people talk in those situations. People say stuff off the record all the time that would lose them their job if recorded and replayed later. Terrible that a child died, but that is why we have hospitals, to try to save people. What is the alternative? Seems another attack on the NHS, an organisation of 1.5 million people, because a few we heard having a conversation that they don't understand why the patient was not given medicine sooner. Nobody said specifically that the medicine was refused, did they? Just that medicine was not given as soon as it could have been.

If we go down the route of defensive medicine they practice in the US then we have no one to blame but ourselves.

An emergency visit to the US for a bump to the head of toddler cost tens of thousands of dollars. Even though the toddler was fine when he came in, the parents were just worried. Why you might ask.

Well the hospital put their full paediatric team on standby because they won't take the risk that it wasn't serious even though they knew it was. They would rather be ready for that minute chance its serious because they are more worried of being sued or losing their indemnity cover by not having available all their services. That's just one example.

 

[Brigadier]

Private corporations like to hide the truth as well, Bankers, Exxon, World Com etc

This cover up has nothing to do with Austerity so that's spurious. The case in point the staff are not negligent. The issue is the lack of clarity which should be investigated.

You introduced "cutting costs", and "stretching to breaking point".

Dr's make errors but in a medical setup you have checks and balances. What happens is that to cut costs there is less staff to do conduct oversight. Staff are working longer shifts and at handovers things can be missed.

When you stretch services to the point of breaking mistakes will happen.

 

[SirGalahad]

You introduced "cutting costs", and "stretching to breaking point".

Correct. But I did not say that was a cause for the cover up. I was making a wider point about practicing medicine and defensive medicine which this discussion has covered.

 

[Brigadier]

Correct. But I did not say that was a cause for the cover up. I was making a wider point about practicing medicine and defensive medicine which this discussion has covered.

Neither did I.

That's simply avoiding the unpalatable truth.
"State Institutions" were renowned for circling the wagons / looking after their own / covering up, long before "Austerity".

 

[Judy in the sky]

Staff are working longer shifts and at handovers things can be missed.

At inter-ward handovers (handing over patients from one ward to another) things are almost always missed. A typical handover from another ward to ours (conducted over the telephone ) usually goes like this.

Hello, Ward xx

Hi there , I have a patient I want to transfer to your ward and see there is an empty bed on there. Can you accept this patient?

Hi , yes give me the patient details.

Certainly, he / she is aged 87 and has been admitted following a series of falls at home resulting in a broken NOF left leg.

Ahh thanks. Can you tell me what their mobility is like ?


Yes, they are currently nursed in bed, but can transfer using a WZF + 2 staff.

Great. Can you tell me if they are currently on an Increased Nursing Supervision order or need 1:1 care ?

Hi there, they are not on INS nor are they on a 1:1 nursing care plan.

Thank you . Any special dietary needs ?

Hi, no, they are on ND /NF (normal diet / normal fluids)

Ahh nice What's the patients continence like ?

Hi, the patient is continent.

Great, can you arrange transport for this afternoon and we'll prepare the bed for them

Yes thanks,, Bye ,, click, brrrrrrrrr

A few hours later, the patient arrives on our ward. We admit them, do a set of observations, weigh them, check pressure areas etc, then have a look through the nursing notes,,,,,,,,,,, only to discover that 30 minutes before the telephone handover, the patient was on 1:1 supervision and for the two weeks prior to that they were on constant INS. Further reading reveals that they are in fact doubly incontinent and have behavioural problems such that staff are putting themselves at risk during every intervention.

Had you knew this patient was actually like this, they would have probably been refused admission to the ward, together with the suggestion that the transferring ward staff get in touch with the Mental Health team to have the patients MH assessed.. But that's just how it is though,, We're left to pick up the pieces and just get on with it..


PS, a few months ago we had a patient on our ward who's husband was also in hospital (on a different ward) suffering from terminal cancer. Our sisters moved heaven and earth to ensure there was a bed available on our ward for him so his wife could be with him at the end (our ward is not an EOL ward nor cancer ward) But, that never got mentioned in the local press far less the Daily Fail.