Today UK Deaths 359 vs EU 27 of 314

[Bodd]

people on here were lauding the Sweden herd immunity policy.

Which is the reason the UK has been doing so badly -it chose herd immunity insterad of following 90% of the rest of the world.
Johnson even told the Italian PM that was the policy

Boris Johnson told Italy’s prime minister he was aiming for “herd immunity” to defeat coronavirus, an explosive TV documentary has revealed, despite No 10 denying that was ever the policy.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-italy-prime-minister-a9544916.html#gsc.tab=0

Would the herd immunity be more of a long term thing...

 

[durhamplumber]

Get Killing done.

WTF?

 

[Brigadier]

Sweden's deaths per million is substantially less than UK, even though the number of cases per million is almost identical.

Artefact of Sweden doing more testing, or that swedes are generally healthier (and therefore less likely to be in "vulnerable" groups)?

 

[motorbiking]

If you read up on Sweden, the jury is out on whether their strategy was best or not. It really depends how long CoViD is going to be around. If this is going to be here for a few years then we will likely consider their strategy to be the best. They do have a lot of infections and critically ill (dead people aren't normally described as sick). However, given 100% of our Covid cases were imported, you wonder if our our infection ranking is entirely predictable when you look at this

https://www.citypopulation.de/en/world/bymap/AirTrafficPassengers.html

 

[ajohn]

And when Spain excelled by reducing their daily deaths from nearly 300 to 0 almost overnight,

Hallelujah, a miracle.

More likely an adjustment as the notes about it say. You should look at the full deaths data and beware of some one who decides to show a tiny proportion of it.

 

[durhamplumber]

However, given 100% of our Covid cases were imported,

Is that not true of every country except China?

 

[SirGalahad]

However, given 100% of our Covid cases were imported

Did Matt write that?

 

[festive]

And how long has it taken the government to decide FINALLY we should be wearing masks on trains etc
Honestly I've seen faster reactions from a crack head on methadone.

 

[Bodd]

And how long has it taken the government to decide FINALLY we should be wearing masks on trains etc
Honestly I've seen faster reactions from a crack head on methadone.

Was it not because of the lack of effective masks

 

[Notch7]

And how long has it taken the government to decide FINALLY we should be wearing masks on trains etc
Honestly I've seen faster reactions from a crack head on methadone.

I feel sorry for people who have to travel on trains or the tube to get to work -that must so stressful.

To be fair to the government, the science has been emerging on whether wearing masks is a good thing.

 

[Notch7]

Would the herd immunity be more of a long term thing...

ha ha, never underestimate the ability of Tory voters to make excuses

'maybe herd immunity is the correct way.....lets wait and see'
'we cant make comparisions yet, we have to wait until the second wave, or the third wave'

yeah, lets wait until its all over to make comparisons, by which time nobody will be interested and the government will have got away with it.

 

[Bodd]

ha ha, never underestimate the ability of Tory voters to make excuses

'maybe herd immunity is the correct way.....lets wait and see'
'we cant make comparisions yet, we have to wait until the second wave, or the third wave'

yeah, lets wait until its all over to make comparisons, by which time nobody will be interested and the government will have got away with it.

I'm not making excuses. I'm merely asking the question.

When they start asking plumbers for the answers then we are in trouble

 

[fillyboy]

Just to be clear, Spain recognised that it had a problem with timely daily updates, with delays in data from regions.

Just to be clear, the data for 3rd June, which is the day under discussion, Spain recorded a daily total of 822 deaths. The number of deaths, that were not included in the daily data, for the day that was under discussion, is 17 deaths. It won't make an iota of difference to the original article that UK's daily deaths, on that day, were greater than the rest of the EU combined.
Spain's weekly figures are accurate, and they are updated weekly.

Just to be clear, UK also has a problem with timely daily updates, so UK also updates their totals (ONS figures) weekly.

Just to be clear, there will be deaths in the UK daily figures that will not be accounted for in the government's figures, but they will appear in the ONS figures on 9th June.

Just to be clear, UK only reports deaths that were tested positive for Covid19. It does not include any deaths that Covid19 was the suspected cause, but no test was effected, unlike Belgium, which includes deaths where Covid19 was the suspected cause.

Just to be clear, there will be many deaths, especially in care homes where a test was not performed. Hence the use of 'excess deaths' data.

Just to be clear, that chart for Spains daily deaths covers a 9 day period, just how many days are in a week?

 

[Bodd]

Just to be clear, that chart for Spains daily deaths covers a 9 day period, just how many days are in a week?

I think there's 7.. Some Spanish speaking countries there is actually 9

 

[ajohn]

If you read up on Sweden, the jury is out on whether their strategy was best or not. It really depends how long CoViD is going to be around. If this is going to be here for a few years then we will likely consider their strategy to be the best. They do have a lot of infections and critically ill (dead people aren't normally described as sick). However, given 100% of our Covid cases were imported, you wonder if our our infection ranking is entirely predictable when you look at this

https://www.citypopulation.de/en/world/bymap/AirTrafficPassengers.html

Nail on the head really. They start on the basis that it will infect the country mentioning that 70% of arrivals go to major populations centres - for that read bigger cities. They list some. This is old stuff relating to the "plan". Get to cv19 time and it's mentioned again along with draconian control may delay it starting for some period of time - I recollect a month. Can't have been that draconian because in theory it could be prevented from spreading here at all with enforced isolation. Some countries have found that they do really need to enforce isolation on arrivals. We did it on repatriation, in some cases anyway.

All ok but it doesn't consider eventual numbers and the problems that causes. Too many to easily cope. This is where Korea, Taiwan and others score. They keep the numbers low. China is different because they didn't know what they were dealing with so more infected however same general techniques used as quickly as they could. Some countries where it arrived later reacted more quickly. Lock down will reduce the peak from the point where it is introduced. Numbers will be higher the later it is.

Herd immunity doesn't help with numbers either if it's wanted. I suspect our approach means that we were going to get some. Numbers from samples are not that high but in terms of infecting others they are thought to help. It's rather tricky for them to really know what effect it has.

Masks is the interesting one. People can't distance from things they can touch. Talking and even breathing can spread it. I'm wondering if the recent mandate to use them on public transport is to prevent them from needing regular disinfecting. Hope not. The need to do that has been mentioned.

Many who get CV19 don't finish up in hospital so the only number info a country has during an outbreak is the ones that do. Bear that in mind when looking at others. Later they can sample as we are doing recently but I think that still includes critical workers, a lot of them.