Transform my life please !!!!

[lorveney]

I've spent ages looking for reasonably priced, reasonably bright low voltage deck lights that can be recessed into deck boards. I want to run these off an external transformer, most sets seem to have an indoor transformer which plugs directly into a mains socket.

Homebase have some called Lamanca that are in packs of two and use 12V 10W Bi pin halogen bulbs (£24.99 per set), so that kinda meets the first requirement.

However they supply an indoor transformer and their installation instructions say "..... This product must only be used with the 12V, safety isolating transformer supplied. Do not remove this transformer and connect the product directly to the mains supply (duh obviously!) and do not use with any other transformer ....." (they would say that wouldn't they!). Also " ..... The transformer supplied with this product is double insulated and should not be earthed....."

They also say " ..... DO NOT CONNECT ANY OTHER LIGHTING UNIT TO THE LOW VOLTAGE SUPPLY CABLE ....." (presumably cos the transformer supplied ain't up to it).

The lights are supplied to Homebase by Ring Lighting of Leeds.

The transformer in question is:-

Model: JT-12V1700
Input: 230-240V AC 50Hz
Output: 12VAC 1700mA Max: 20.4VA

The two lights are connected to the low voltage cable in series.

What I would like to know is:

- can I buy a new external use transformer that will allow me to run six of these lights off it (junking the transformers they provide - think it will still be cost effective to do this)?

- if so, can anyone suggest a suitable one (supplier/make/rating/internet website/etc.)? If it will need housing in a waterproof box, can you suggest one of those also?

- will the low voltage cable they have supplied be up to this increased load?

- will I be able to sleep soundly in my bed 'of a night' knowing I ain't going to kill anyone (myself included) due to a dodgy setup?

Ring Lighting's nice young lady on the help line (well her voice sounded nice) suggested 'yes maybe' to the above questions (well the first one anyway - didn't ask her about my sleeping habits) but she wouldn't or couldn't be more specific.

If 'no' then its back to Homebase for a refund (spect they'll want their points back as well!) and on with the search again !!

 

[breezer]

fibre optic lights are much nicer, change colour too.

as for the transformer, yes you can, but you will be invalidating the waranty (but you knew that)

you can use a weatherproof box to put your transformers in,

just thought what about led deck lights

have a look at here

these will last longer, take knocks, and you can put transformer in box

 

[lorveney]

Thanks for that breezer.

Yes, I realised the warranty would be invalidated (in fact says so in the instructions).

I've looked quite a lot at LEDs. I've two concerns. One is the price - more than double what I've paid for Homebase specials taking VAT into account (and these you've pointed to are more reasonable than most). Secondly, I'm not sure how bright they will be - LEDs tend to be marketed as giving more of a 'subtle background glow'. I realise that with 9 LEDs per light they will be better than some but I've not been able to find anyone who can properly demonstrate them in the dark. Been in a few store cupboards though!

 

[breezer]

well just for you, i just went outside and took a picture,

its NOt the same brand but it is lit by leds, and bearing in mind it was totaly dark, and its not a really sensative camera its not come out too bad

it appears an "odd" colour because they are white led's but they never do show up as white

 

[treacleman]

IP66 12v lighting transformers are supplied by Aspect lighting (among others) and e.g. a 150va rated one is upwards of £50 inc VAT, so they aren't cheap. On the other hand, deck lights, being recessed in the decking, are rarely used to illuminate anything as usually, there are no surfaces in the direction of the light source seeing as they only shine up into open air, and to this end, the l.e.d. ones very very popular and coming down in price. e.g., a set of 4 x 4led stainless lights c/w IP44 transformer from Luneta are now as low as about £35 inc VAT. To be honest, 10w 12v decklights will also give little more than a background glow. The problem is with heat, i.e. the brighter the halogen lamp, the hotter the glass front will get, and the more sophisticated the light fittings have to get to protect bare feet from getting scorched. The brightest ones i have seen, apart from the huge/cool to touch/24xled round decklights(expensive, but beautiful), are the mains halogen (GU10) 35w halogen "walkover" lights. (about £15 each?) and no transformer.

 

[breezer]

got a link to the £35 lights, sound good, worth a look

 

[treacleman]

(hmmm they are 2xled not 4xled ftgs as previousy described)
http://www.getplc.co.uk/2004/html/main_frameset.htm

Sorry, It's only a manufacturers website, but I don't know if or where you can buy them on-line.
I sell them to the trade, and they are extremely popular, I know this isn't the right platform to use to sell stuff, but if you can't find them anywhere, let me know, and I can point you in the right direction.

 

[breezer]

lorveney, you were saying about cost, as mentioned 10w lamps are not that great, but at the end of the day, quality costs, and yo get what you pay for, and if you used leds you only have to do the job once

 

[lorveney]

Sorry Guys, hear what you say about LEDs and might have spent a bit more time investigating them but son's birthday barbeque is fast approaching and I'm under strict orders to "get on with it!!"

So went with said cr***y lights to CEF today to see what they could sort out for me in the way of a transformer. They had no outdoor transformers in stock but said a normal one plus waterproof box would do the job. Sold me a TECLITE ETS60T (20VA-60VA) transformer plus waterproof plastic box 150 x 110 x 70 and a couple of compression glands for input/output cables.

They assured me that the transformer was adequate for 6 10W lights and that said transformer was OK to use outside in the box and it didn't need ventilation (though transformer instructions say it does). They also said the low voltage wires supplied for a pair of lights would be OK if six were attached in series. The transformer instructions say " ... maximum length of the output wires to the lamps should not excess (sic!) 2m ...". How does this square with having 10m of LV cable which is what I need for the six lights? Are they going to end up dimmer than I am for buying them in the first place?

Anyway, to cut to the chase, embarassed as I am at not following your recommendations, is the above stuff from CEF OK and if so, do you have any tips about how to connect up correctly (from 3 core 1.5mm arctic blue cable and to standard 12V two core cable) and how to seal correctly in the waterproof box? Many thanks

I may live to regret the choice of lights, but at least I want to live long enough to regret it

 

[plugwash]

the transformer is big enough

i would have the connector blocks to split the cables to the lights inside the waterproof box (ie as close to the transformer as possible) and run a seperate cable to each light to minimise volt drop

the lamps are only 10W each so provided you keep thier cables seperate from a point close to the transformer volt drop shouldn't be too much of an issue

 

[breezer]

and of course you really meant to say paralell.

but when you realise how much you are missing the cheap lights will soon become expensive, still, not my money

 

[lorveney]

OK guys, you win!!

May go with one of these http://www.lighting-direct.co.uk/ground_lighting.htm.

Either the Twilight 30mm 8 White LED 4 Light Kit or the Twilight 40mm 6 White LED 4 Light Kit and add an extra four lights to make eight in total.

Presumably since the 30mm light has 8 LEDS and the 40mm light has only 6 LEDS, the LEDS themselves must be different sizes. Can anyone tell me which of the lights will be brighter overall?

Given the transformer is an indoor one and will therefore need to go in a waterproof box outside, can I just stick a rubber plug socket onto my 1.5mm arctic cable and plug the transformer directly into that within the box (or is that just too easy!)

Would really like the ZETA LED lights which look really smart, but that is definitely pushing it too far!

 

[plugwash]

i can't see a problem with an extention socket inside a waterproof box

btw i would always advise using some claer sealant on compression glands they don't tend to seal very well on thier own

 

[breezer]

btw i would always advise using some claer sealant on compression glands they don't tend to seal very well on thier own

no need if you put them on the bottom of the box so they point downwards

___________________________________________________________

you shall go to the ball, or in your case have zeta lights, never get the first ones you see, have a look here much cheaper, oh and thats £13/ light .you owe me

and you can put the transformer in the weather proof box you mentioned

 

[lorveney]

Thanks a lot for the advice guys, lights arriving from TLC on Monday. Hope they're the business or I'll be camping out on the deck!

P.S. Cheques in the post, breezer