Tripping rcd

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Hi looking for advice on a tripping rcd, the customer has already had a new cu fitted, the problem is a Boilermate, works ok on its own 24/7, kitchen appliances work, microwave, dishwasher, oven etc with no problems but as soon as kitchen appliances and Boilermate run at the same time the rcd trips?????
The electrician has come back and put the Boilermate on its own circuit but still the same situation.
I’m a gas engineer so not electrically minded but going back with a sparky tomorrow so anything to look out for?
Thanks
 
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The electrician has come back and put the Boilermate on its own circuit but still the same situation.

If there is only one RCD, putting them on separate circuits, assuming the same RCD will make no difference at all - or did you mean different RCBO's?

One RCD, could mean that each item has some leakage, and the accumulated leakage is more than 30mA - enough to trip an RCD.
 
The Boilermate has been put on its own rcd, Boilermate runs 24/7 no problems, but if you use kitchen appliances and the Boilermate the Boilermate rcd trips, thanks
Edit, the red switch for the Boilermate trips, electrician refers to them as rcd, 2 different sparks have been to job but still no further forward, thanks
 

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The Boilermate has been put on its own rcd, Boilermate runs 24/7 no problems, but if you use kitchen appliances and the Boilermate the Boilermate rcd trips, thanks
Edit, the red switch for the Boilermate trips, electrician refers to them as rcd, 2 different sparks have been to job but still no further forward, thanks

The pic does not include your RCBO's, it only shows the surge protection and main switch.
 
Are you putting all kitchen appliances on at the same time, or just one particular appliance and boilermate?
 
It could be any combination of appliances and the Boilermate
 
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Sounds more like a job for a good spark (I’m gas safe too, but have worked on electrics). One thing I would check is make sure nobody has hung anything up recently, I once had a job where the spark said it was the boiler, but after the boiler was turned off, it was found to be the customer hung a mirror up in the hallway and punctured the cable.
 
I had never heard of boilermate, so first think was I looked at the installation guide, and what I realised is it uses pulse width modulated controllers which run on quite a high frequency, I could not find a reference to RCD's but am wondering if it needs a type F.

There are three things with RCD's testing wise, one is the RCD its self, two is the insulation resistance, and three is back ground leakage. Simple ohms law one would think if the insulation resistance is high then there would be little leakage, however we test insulation resistance using DC, where the supply is AC, so with AC we have capacitive and inductive leaks which the DC meter will not pick up. So the clamp on ammeter shows us the actual leakage.

This can be between 100Hz – 5000 Hz (1000Hz nominal)
(Lab tested figure of 562Hz recorded in steady state conditions).
rings alarm bells for me, it may be that this is not superimposed on the mains supply, and a type A RCD is good enough, however it refers to IEE not IET as it is now, so the manual must be old, maybe before everything was RCD protected.

In the early days I could not test for DC or read 1 mA leakage on the clamp on, 10 mA was lowest reading, and I have had RCD's tripping when the RCD tester showed A1 and the insulation tester also showed as OK, but swapping the RCD got rid of the problem, at that point we had the type that tripped in 40 ms and the delayed type S. There were no other marking on RCD's, today we have 5 types. As well as S delayed we have
1695938289769.png
the first type AC is no longer used, but old RCD's may be type AC the next type A will allow 6 mA DC without freezing, the next type B is for DC and the last type F is for frequency over 50 Hz. this explains further there is a link in that article to even more.

If we read it then it says how
Type F RCDs are used for frequency controlled appliances and equipment.
Examples of equipment include:
  • air conditioning controllers with variable speed drives
  • some Class I power tools
  • washing machines
  • dishwashers, and
  • tumble driers which contain synchronous motors.
Some times I think they need to get real, I have seen type A and AC RCBO's as single modular width, even with double pole switching, but not type F or B, so to change from type AC to F is likely not an easy job, however I would start with simple tests insulation résistance, RCD test and leakage with a clamp on, and if these show clear would try swapping the RCD anyway.

It's the pump which can cause the problem, so again swapping the PWM controller for the pump may also help.

Good luck, and please tell us the outcome.
 
... type F is for frequency over 50 Hz. this explains further there is a link in that article to even more. .... If we read it then it says how
Type F RCDs are used for frequency controlled appliances and equipment.
Examples of equipment include:
  • air conditioning controllers with variable speed drives
  • some Class I power tools
  • washing machines
  • dishwashers, and
  • tumble driers which contain synchronous motors.
I'm a bit confused. Does that mean "washing machines, dishwashers or tumble driers which contain synchronous motors" ??

If so, don't synchronous motors usually run at 50 Hz, particularly given that, to the best of my knowledge, none of those appliances would normally have 'variable speed' motors, would they ?

Kind Regards, John
 
My washing machine has a variable speed drive, but none of the high frequency components get out of the machine,

Like wise the pump in my central heating has a speed control.
 
My washing machine has a variable speed drive, but none of the high frequency components get out of the machine,
I suppose all washing machines have several speeds ('wash' and 'spin', usually with a choice of spin speeds) but I must admit that it hadn't occurred to me that that might be achieved by a high-frequency feed (I'm notr sure how I thought it was achieved :) ). Is that how it's normally done?
Like wise the pump in my central heating has a speed control.
So do mine (all 'old'!), but all those I've taken apart in the past have eached speed changing by switching windings. Do I take it that 'modern' ones do it electronically?

Kind Regards, John
 
I think the frequancy may be a red herring, one looks at other things first, the insulation tester and clamp on ammeter are the first tools.

However he says an electrician has been employed, so one assumes run of mill tests already done, so assuming no fault found, one then has to look at more unusual causes.
 

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