two port zone valVes

[ray316]

l need to replace 2 two port zone values as the c/h/hw control switch is not working and a plumber said this was the problem. l'm quite competent at diy but as l've never done this before would like some help and advice if possible. The two port values are on the same pipe seperated by about 8" and in between them is a tee that l presume goes to the cylinder(not sure without looking). Anyway my question is do l have to fully drain the system or is there any other way around this, and when connecting new values is there any thing l need to put on the threads or joints for a secure seal like plumbers ptfe.
Also how much are two port values and best places to get them, l think these are honeywell.

 

[bellairaphon]

the programmer isnt working?? its not the valves if thats the case. or do u mean when u select heating or hot water the valves dont motor over? have u checked both the stats are calling for heat

 

[D_Hailsham]

l need to replace 2 two port zone values as the c/h/hw control switch is not working and a plumber said this was the problem. ... The two port values are on the same pipe seperated by about 8" and in between them is a tee that l presume goes to the cylinder(not sure without looking).

If you have just two 2-port valves, one controls the central heating, the other controls the hot water circuit. The tee pipe will go to the boiler.

Are you comfortable working with electrics?

The first think to check is where the problem lies. It could be in either the timer, a thermostat or one of the valves. The valve could be sticking or the motor/actuator faulty.

Turn power off

There is a lever in a slot on the side of the valve. It should be at the Auto end of the slot. Slide the lever to the other end. You should feel some resistance as you are opening the valve against a spring. If the lever is floppy, the valve is stuck open. You can usually cure this by removing the actuator and putting a small amount of WD 40 or similar on the valve shaft. If the valve still sticks, you will have to replace the complete valve.

If not sticking, we can now carry out electrical tests.

The valves have a four wires, brown, blue, orange and grey.

Disconnect both brown wires (make a note of where they are connected).
Connect one brown wire to the Live input of the junction box.
Turn power on.
One of the valves should operate (you should hear the motor) and the boiler light.
If it operates, but does not light, the valve switch is faulty. You may be able to repair this, otherwise it's a new actuator or valve.
If it does not operate, the motor is faulty. You can buy new motors at most DIY sheds or a plumbers merchant.

Turn power off.
Disconnect the brown and connect the other brown to the Live input
Turn power on.
Check the second valve.

If both valves work OK, the fault is either in a thermostat or the timeswitch.

The brown wires are normally connected to the Switched Live side of the appropriate thermostat. We can check both timer and thermostat by connecting the brown to the other side of the thermostat. As the two wires to a thermostat will be in the same cable it is easy to identify the other wire.

Connect HW valve brown wire to HW stat live terminal.
Turn power on
Turn HW on at timer. The boiler should light. Check the options on the timer (timed, constant etc) to make sure they work.
Turn power off
Disconnect HW valve brown wire from HW stat live

If this test fails, the HW side of the timer is faulty.

Connect CH valve brown wire to the CH stat live terminal
Turn power on
Turn CH on at timer. The boiler should light. Check the options on the timer (timed, constant etc) to make sure they work.
Turn power off and disconnect brown wire.

If this test fails the CH side of the timer is faulty.

If both tests pass, then you have faulty thermostats.

Connect the HW brown wire to its original teminal.
Turn power on
Set HW ON and turn HW thermostat up
Boiler should light. If it does not the HW thermostat is faulty
Turn HW and Power OFF
Connect CH brown wire to its original terminal
Turn power on
Set CH to on and turn CH thermostat up
Boiler should light. If it does not the CH thermostat is faulty

how much are two port values

Do a Google!

best places to get them

Any plumbers merchant, screwfix, DIY shed, online. Take your pick

l think these are honeywell.

Good make.

 

[ray316]

There is a lever in a slot on the side of the valve. It should be at the Auto end of the slot. Slide the lever to the other end. You should feel some resistance as you are opening the valve against a spring. If the lever is floppy, the valve is stuck open. You can usually cure this by removing the actuator and putting a small amount of WD 40 or similar on the valve shaft. If the valve still sticks, you will have to replace the complete valve.

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Thanks for the replys l shall try and explain the problem further so l'm not wasting money on parts if not needed.
first off the timer does not work at all on C/H or H/W so to get hot water l use the fused switch next to the timer problem is l you only want hot water l'm getting the C/H as well till l can sort the timer out so the boiler is working constant on and off.
l had a plumber come out and have a look at the problem and he said the problem was the 2 port values he said the levers had no resistance and were like you say sloppy, but he never did any volt meter tests on any parts or checks so l dont know 100% if this is the problem now that bellairaphon says it's not the port values that can cause this problem .
So to summarize :: The timer does not work at all not even the clock.
Have to use fused switch for H/W and C/H.
Port values have on resistance and levers sloppy.

Could the port values cause the timer not to work or not as l'm going to replace them first if they can..

Also if someone can answer my question on replacing the port values:
Do l have to fully drain the system or is there a other way .
Thanks

 

[ray316]

Sorry just checked the clock is working but the switches are not, and it is a potterton EP 2OOO Timer and honeywell port values and thermostat with baxi boiler for information now all l need is to sort this timer out so l'm not red hot all day waiting for hot water as the central heating is also on

 

[D_Hailsham]

Sorry just checked the clock is working but the switches are not

NO. The switches just seem to be not working. There are three switches in series which all all have to work for the boiler to light: Programmer, Thermostat and Valve. We have to determine which one is faulty. That's why I posted instructions on testing the system.

In the previous post you said:

Valves have no resistance and levers sloppy.

If the levers are floppy then the valve is stuck open. As I said, this can be rectified - instructions in my previous post. But I forgot to mention that you should not try to remove the actuator if is does NOT have a bump on the top; you will get wet if you do.

If you have to replace a complete valve, you will need to drain the system.

 

[ray316]

If the levers are floppy then the valve is stuck open. As I said, this can be rectified - instructions in my previous post. But I forgot to mention that you should not try to remove the actuator if is does NOT have a bump on the top; you will get wet if you do.
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D. Hailsham what do you mean by: You should not try to remove the actuator if it does not have a bump on the top

Also which one of these port values will l need for my system.
a Honeywell V4043 'B' will be closed on receiving live.
and the V4043 'H' model numbers will be open when live.

 

[ray316]

Do l have to replace with honeywell port values or can other values be ok, the prices seem to be alot cheaper on other values but would like to know if wires and fittings are ok on other models.

l'm going to check if the values are sticking first, can someone give me step by step information on how to get the actuator out. Diagrams , information will be a great help..... Thanks

 

[D_Hailsham]

D. Hailsham what do you mean by: You should not try to remove the actuator if it does not have a bump on the top

On very old valves the actuator could not be removed so, if you had a problem with the actuator, the complete valve had to be replaced. Honeywell eventually redesigned so the actuator could be replaced on its own. This picture shows the current Honeywell valve you will see the slight bump on the top, at the opposite end to the cable entry. If the valve has this bump, you can safely change the actuator.
View media item 11762
If it does not have this bump, don't try removing the actuator without draining down. Honeywell do sell a conversion kit, but they are not easy to get hold of you usually have to replace the complete valve.

l'm going to check if the values are sticking first, can someone give me step by step information on how to get the actuator out.

See http://www.uk-plumbing.com/brochure/honeywell/400003916Data.pdf

Do l have to replace with honeywell port values or can other values be ok, the prices seem to be a lot cheaper on other values but would like to know if wires and fittings are ok on other models.

You can use other valves, but Honeywell are better and will last longer. If you are replacing just the actuator, you must get a Honeywell one.

You need the V4043H valve. All valves have the same wiring.