U-Duct replacement boiler

Anyone have a link to these regs?

So VC, what does this open flue look like?

What do I order in the merchants?

Tony

Haven't got anything current at home other than my old out of date version of BS:5440 Pt 1.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/65173138/77/Flue-Chimney-Classification might help a bit

It isn't an open flue if you mean the appliance flue Tony it's our old Uni-Flue 60/100mm.

I looked at the MI and it gives no indication of how they want it left other than the standard flue terminal grill. I'd check that with technical because I was always told the air duct is finished flush with the surface of the duct and the terminal left protruding out into the duct to a depth specified by the manufacturer. We show an illustration with a standard terminal which I don't think is correct in a duct.

Go to page 12 of the MI for flue part numbers. http://www.vokera.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/compact-28se-user-and-installation-manual.pdf

If you're doing one - when the old boiler comes out block off the flue hole until the new is fitted because of course you are opening the property to a flue system. Sorry if I'm stating the obvious.
 
Sponsored Links
Firstly for information I am not a “Gas Professional” but a Chartered Electrical Engineer now on the (unpaid) management committee of a block of flats with two elderly U-ducts. We have been working with our managing agents to sort out problems partly due to ducts working poorly with modern boilers (even SE boilers are much more efficient than the 1960s boilers for which the ducts were designed, giving insufficient waste heat to properly drive the (thermal convection in) the flues). Also there are fears that modern colder flue gases can cause more corrosion than in former times. Like Benmay, we are struggling on how to install new (condensing) boilers when inevitably non condensing boilers disappear.
Though older standards refer to flue inspections, the document raising the bar for shared flues is IGEM/UP/17 from the Institution of Gas Engineers and Managers. This was published in July 2011. According to its description it “summarises best practice in the use and maintenance of new and existing "shared flues" systems i.e. shunt duct, Se-duct, U-duct systems, and fabricated shared chimney/flue systems (communal flue systems (CFSs))”. The requirements of this standard are onerous on anyone managing shared flues, or those considering connecting new boilers to them The Building Regulations people seem to have accepted this IGEM document as the Required Standard.
The information we have gathered so far is totally inconclusive, full of “perhaps” and “maybes”, thus the vague warning in my earlier post. British Gas refused to give a Gas Certificate for one boiler (in a Rental Flat) because it was connected to the U-duct, but another Gas Safe Engineer did issue. Some Installers will connect a new SE boiler to the duct, others won’t. I gather there is discussion in many areas on how to move forward, but meanwhile as most installers will only come across a U-duct very rarely, few are properly informed, and even the back-up bodies seem to be unclear.
Sorry to be unhelpful, and too wordy, but we have been looking at this for nine months or so, and have not identified the best way forward, maybe this thread will find someone with helpful advice.
 
We only ever got involved with 2 props with se ducts, they had to have a camera inspection of the ducts.

As & when the boilers have come up for renewal , most nearly all have resited there appliances else where ie fanned flued condensors.

Some in the blocks prior to 2005 renewed on the ducts with a mixture of different boilers , some of which were never approved for use on see/u ducts!!
 
. We have been working with our managing agents to sort out problems partly due to ducts working poorly with modern boilers (even SE boilers are much more efficient than the 1960s boilers for which the ducts were designed, giving insufficient waste heat to properly drive the (thermal convection in) the flues).

The SE/U ducts were sized for a CO2 of 4% in flue gas , the 'modern' SE boiler might be more efficient but CO2% is still in the region of 4/5% , if condensation were not an issue then max input rating could be doubled in respect of fitting replacement boilers to these SE/U ducts , a moot point but one worth mentioning all the same.

Also there are fears that modern colder flue gases can cause more corrosion than in former times. .

Not so much an issue when replaceing with an SE type boiler , but as said corrosion will be an issue when fitting HE boilers to these type chimneys.
 
Sponsored Links
Not having read the doc I can't comment but unless there is a problem surfacing they couldn't apply it retrospectively. If there is a problem then yes it has to be dealt with.

Regarding SE boilers disappearing there are 300,000 properties served by SE and U ducts, enough of a market for a while.

Have had two guys come on our course specifically to look at the boilers as there are many in their area and at PHEX (a heating exhibition) last week another installer in South London made tracks for us because of the number of boilers that require replacement (he was the one who had been bringing down SE Worcesters from Scotland).

Sherbert makes a very good point about if there is a place for the condenser to go then it can be considered; geography and leaseholds do not always allow.
 
As I have said

I dont think that an exemption certificate will cover this, from what I can remember of them theres hardly any instance where it will , just because of the cost, managing agents will not like etc etc it is not a reason that is valid

Has anybody still got any of the forms still ......... has anybody filled one in within the last 3 years
 
Hi I know of a company (chimney care) who have relined these type of ducts with a Class 1 waterproof Thermosetting resin liner "FuranFlex" which means that condensing appliances could be used. However due to flue gas temperatures etc yopu may need to install modulating chimney fans (exodraught) When fitting the boiler intop the flue it needs to be bal;anced with all the other boilers in the flue (duct). Dont mix boiler types, you may get one boiler running OK but you would need to checvk every other boiler in the duct.
Anyone have a link to these regs?

So VC, what does this open flue look like?

What do I order in the merchants?

Tony

Haven't got anything current at home other than my old out of date version of BS:5440 Pt 1.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/65173138/77/Flue-Chimney-Classification might help a bit

It isn't an open flue if you mean the appliance flue Tony it's our old Uni-Flue 60/100mm.

I looked at the MI and it gives no indication of how they want it left other than the standard flue terminal grill. I'd check that with technical because I was always told the air duct is finished flush with the surface of the duct and the terminal left protruding out into the duct to a depth specified by the manufacturer. We show an illustration with a standard terminal which I don't think is correct in a duct.

Go to page 12 of the MI for flue part numbers. http://www.vokera.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/compact-28se-user-and-installation-manual.pdf

If you're doing one - when the old boiler comes out block off the flue hole until the new is fitted because of course you are opening the property to a flue system. Sorry if I'm stating the obvious.
 
Some time has passed since that thread was started.

In the meantime as far as I am aware the situation is still as unclear!

I even know of an open flued Worcester fitted to an SE duct with an airtight door ( which should be interlocked to the boiler! ).

Its not only a very difficult situation but nothing is being done to clarify it.

Tony
 
Hi I know of a company (chimney care) who have relined these type of ducts with a Class 1 waterproof Thermosetting resin liner "FuranFlex" which means that condensing appliances could be used. However due to flue gas temperatures etc yopu may need to install modulating chimney fans (exodraught) When fitting the boiler intop the flue it needs to be bal;anced with all the other boilers in the flue (duct). Dont mix boiler types, you may get one boiler running OK but you would need to checvk every other boiler in the duct.
Anyone have a link to these regs?

So VC, what does this open flue look like?

What do I order in the merchants?

Tony

Haven't got anything current at home other than my old out of date version of BS:5440 Pt 1.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/65173138/77/Flue-Chimney-Classification might help a bit

It isn't an open flue if you mean the appliance flue Tony it's our old Uni-Flue 60/100mm.

I looked at the MI and it gives no indication of how they want it left other than the standard flue terminal grill. I'd check that with technical because I was always told the air duct is finished flush with the surface of the duct and the terminal left protruding out into the duct to a depth specified by the manufacturer. We show an illustration with a standard terminal which I don't think is correct in a duct.

Go to page 12 of the MI for flue part numbers. http://www.vokera.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/compact-28se-user-and-installation-manual.pdf

If you're doing one - when the old boiler comes out block off the flue hole until the new is fitted because of course you are opening the property to a flue system. Sorry if I'm stating the obvious.

DFCC, are you the gentleman I spoke to in Brighton?

In addition to the boosted extract and the cost of the lining is there a requirement to upgrade drainage? I have never actually looked at the bottom of a duct, would there be some drainage provided anyway? Can't remember seeing any on the BS illustrations but I don't have them to hand at the moment.
 
No drainage on SE/U duct , having to clean the 'sump' on these chimney systems is a nightmare , SE being the worst.
 

DIYnot Local

Staff member

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.


Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

 
Sponsored Links
Back
Top