Uncertified consumer unit replacement

[neanderthal]

I had a building firm in at the start of the year doing a fair bit of work to the house.

A consumer unit was replaced.

I made it absolutely clear (on multiple occasions) to the firm that I wanted certification for the electrical work and they assured me it wouldn't be a problem.

Needless to say they completed the work and went on their way. I chased them up for the certification for a couple of months and eventually someone came around, poked around the fuse box and a few sockets and I was told the certificate would be in the post. I got said certificate a few weeks later (after more chasing) only to find that it's a Periodic Inspection Report.

My understanding of this is that a PIR is not what is required for a consumer unit replacement and that I need an Electrical Installation Certificate. Is that correct?

Can anyone advise of my options now, other than reporting said builder to trading standards..?

 

[EFLImpudence]

You are correct in all that you said.

A PIR is all that could be issued by anyone other than the original installer although, from what you said, it would seem they did not do it thoroughly. No one is allowed to issue EIC for other people's work.

You should not even have had to ask for the certificate. The only reason for not issuing one would be if the person was not registered to do the work.

You can try reporting them to Trading Standards, an association that the builder may belong to or maybe your Local Authority Building Control.

 

[Electrifying]

Yes, you should have been issued with an EIC for the consumer unit replacement.

This should have been issued by the person who installed & inspected and tested the new CU.

This is the responsibilty of the 'installer' - who doesn't have to be registered with anyone.....but he does have to issue the EIC.

The bigger issue is that the installation of the CU is also 'notifiable' work - it should either have been installed by an 'electrician' who was regstered with one of the 'Part P Schemes' or your local building control should have been notified that you intended having the CU replaced (prior to work commencing).

Unfortunately for you, this is your reponsibility.
You should have asked to see the 'builders' Part P registration certificate and, if he didn't have one, informed the LBC of the work.

It's similar to having an 'extension' built on your house - it's the 'home-owners' responsibilty and you wouldn't dream of not submitting 'plans' or a 'building notice' for your extension.

I would suggest you speak to your local authority and tell them what has happened and follow any advice that they give.

 

[Electrifying]

I suppose another way around this - if you really wanted to rectify the situation - is get a registered electrician to re-install the CU.

They could disconnect all circuits, run the necessary tests, re-connect circuits and then complete the I & T.
The registered electrician could then issue an EIC and notify the work via his scheme.
Obviously, he'd charge you for labour, but it should be easily completed within a day.
If it was me doing it, I'd probably charge you about £150.......unfortunately, I'm up north

 

[neanderthal]

Many thanks Electrfying - don't suppose you know any appropriately qualified scousers operating in the Wembley area? Once upon a time they used to ask for their usual seats at a local stadium...

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

The thing is when installing a new consumer unit, that is what you are doing. You are not re-wiring or installing additional circuits.
So in my eyes although not the correct way about doing things.
A PIR should be good enough to prove the installation is safe for continued service and no worse than prior to the new fit.
The testing procedures and the documentation are the same "A Schedule of Test"
It is not a an initial verification and non conformities or limitations will be documented to the schedules of inspection as in a PIR.
You should have an EIC don't get me wrong, check the paper work because when I change over CU's, I do both sets of paper work EIC and PIR. Make sure that's not the case.
You can call your local building controls up and they will tell you if there was ever an application made for the work.
If not they will want your money for the work to be inspected, this will vary from area to area. It's £240 were I am working at the moment for electrical work to be notified to building controls.
I think the cheapest way out for the EIC would be to get a registered electrician to revisit the installation and go through the motions of a re-fit as previously mentioned by Electrifying.

 

[Electrifying]

The thing is when installing a new consumer unit, that is what you are doing. You are not re-wiring or installing additional circuits.

So, if 'Neanderthal' has had a 10 way Dual Rcd Wylex installed and I went along, disconnected all the circuits - did appropriate dead testing on original circuits, re-installed said circuits and completed I&T.........This is no good and I couldn't issue an EIC.

BUT, if I did as above, but also removed the two screws holding the CU to the wall, carried it to my van and swapped it (or not ), for the 10 way Wylex that I happen to have on the van - head back into 'Neanderthals' house and install as new, then this is ok?

The main issue is that the 'installation' of the CU is NEW, not that the CU is new - in my opinion, anyway.


I fail to see the difference - I'm certifying the work that I'm carrying out, and that's what the OP needs.


I have just noticed the last line of your post, Prenticeboy - you then tell him to go ahead with what I suggested - I took your first paragraph to mean you disagreed

 

[ebee]

I assume you did not withhold a substantial amount of payment until the job was completed ie until certs were obtained (and notification made - providing of course you were aware that it should have been notified).

These builders have obviously left you in the lurch and with no intended fault of your own.

I'd say LA Building control & trading standards, it just aint reet they've done this to you.

If you discuss it with them they might even agree that getting a registered person to uninstall then reinstall the CU might be a way forward (once they've had a chance to consider wot to do about the culprits) Bear in mind any faults on your existing wiring might need correcting before the CU is installed again - whether the builders electrics guy saw to this or not we don't know but given the non pro way they've left you then maybe not.

 

[neanderthal]

Nope ebee - I was a proper mug and paid up after being given assurances that all the paperwork would be provided. Lesson learnt there.
Kind of in two minds about reporting them to the LA etc in case they go all formal and 'condemn' the install and make the house unliveable in.
Just getting the consumer unit replaced seems to be the least painful way to go..?

 

[ebee]

Well I can understand that but it will leave them free to do it again as they did to you

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

The thing is when installing a new consumer unit, that is what you are doing. You are not re-wiring or installing additional circuits.

So, if 'Neanderthal' has had a 10 way Dual Rcd Wylex installed and I went along, disconnected all the circuits - did appropriate dead testing on original circuits, re-installed said circuits and completed I&T.........This is no good and I couldn't issue an EIC.

No that would be fine, on the EIC you state the work carried out was the installation of a consumer unit, no problems.

BUT, if I did as above, but also removed the two screws holding the CU to the wall, carried it to my van and swapped it (or not ), for the 10 way Wylex that I happen to have on the van - head back into 'Neanderthals' house and install as new, then this is ok?

I agree, I don't see a problem with that either, but I would hope there would be 4 screws rather than 2 fixing the CU to the wall

The main issue is that the 'installation' of the CU is NEW, not that the CU is new - in my opinion, anyway.

Absolutely! and providing the replacement is compliant, no probs!

I fail to see the difference - I'm certifying the work that I'm carrying out, and that's what the OP needs.

I agree

I have just noticed the last line of your post, Prenticeboy - you then tell him to go ahead with what I suggested - I took your first paragraph to mean you disagreed

I think you could have misunderstood my post.
What I was trying to say, is in my eyes if a PIR proves the installation is fit for continued service, the installation is safe.
It's not the way things should be done, but normally a PIR would be carried out on a replacement CU and the schedules of inspection would/should show that, and I issue both PIR and EIC in these circumstances.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Kind of in two minds about reporting them to the LA etc in case they go all formal and 'condemn' the install and make the house unliveable in.

That would not happen unless building controls consider the installation less safe than it was prior to the consumer unit being installed, which is very unlikely, especially now you have a PIR that hopefully should prove it is safe.

Just getting the consumer unit replaced seems to be the least painful way to go..?

I think that's the way to go, but not replaced, re-installed.

 

[JohnW2]

I suppose ...get a registered electrician to re-install the CU. ... They could disconnect all circuits, run the necessary tests, re-connect circuits and then complete the I & T.

How does that differ from what they would (should) do in the name of a proper PIR?

The registered electrician could then issue an EIC and notify the work via his scheme. .... Obviously, he'd charge you for labour ....

If your answer to my question above is that the work you describe does not differ significantly from that which would be done for a PIR, then, contrary to what is normally said, it would seem that checking out someone else's work ("doing a PIR") often could allow an electrician to issue an EIC, on the basis that (s)he had 're-installed' items of the installation which had been disconnected for testing - and that could apply to a good few things other than CU changes (there are obviously potential problems if new fixed wiring has been installed). .. and, if the 're-installation' (re-connection) would have been part of a PIR anyway, then it probably should not cost much, if anything, more than a PIR.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[echoes]

Some LABC will accept a PIR as evidence of a safe piece of notifiable work and issue a completion certificate.
In my (limited) experience, they have suggested this route where a DIYer has done the work and then employed a spark to provide test results at the request of LABC, provided LABC are satisfied with the rest of the work (routes, positions etc).

 

[JohnW2]

Some LABC will accept a PIR as evidence of a safe piece of notifiable work and issue a completion certificate.
In my (limited) experience, they have suggested this route where a DIYer has done the work and then employed a spark to provide test results at the request of LABC, provided LABC are satisfied with the rest of the work (routes, positions etc).

Yes,I understand that, but we're talking about something a little differently here ....

.... it was suggested (not by me!) that in relation to something like a straighforward CU change (without any new cable routing etc.) that an electrician who disconnected all the circuits, tested them and then reconnected them, as part of doing a PIR, could argue that (s)he was thereby (re-)installing the CU - so, in addition to issuing a PIR, could also legitimately issue an IEC for that (re-)installation work. I repeat that it was not my suggestion, but what do you think of the idea?

Kind Regards, John.