Unidentified Leak. Looking for suggestions.....

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Hi,

I manage a small block of 12 flats where we have a leak and I can't identify where its coming from. I have a few ideas tho.

The building has ground, 1st and 2nd floors and then a penthouse on the 3rd floor that takes up about half of floor space.

Back in June a large leak emerged in the corridor of the 2nd floor. This was quickliy identified as a shower leak from the penthouse above. It had leaked a few years ago and had a dodgy seal and had never been fixed properly. That shower wasnt then used again until it was fixed this week. The water in the corridor has since dried out and theres no sign of any more water and damp in that area.

However, back in June the owner of an apartment on the 2nd floor that is close but not beneath the penthouse also complained of a damp patch in his flat. I looked at it and took some photos.

Photo 1 shows the damage in the apartment back in June and now. By removing a light fitting I could see how the water was dripping down from the concrete roof above, causing the stalactites. This was obviously an old and slow leak. It is currently dripping enough to leave about 200ml a day!

Back in June I told him that we knew what the poblem was. It was the leaking shower and that it was being taken care of.

However, several weeks later he complained the damp was getting worse and when I examined the roof was still dripping and still is.

FIRST QUESTION: Could this still be water from the shower that leaked over 2 months ago? Could enough water be trapped up there that it is still soaking through the concrete and dripping down or would you expect it to have all dried out by now? If it is that water still, how long may this go on for and how could we speed up the process. Im assuming the concrete is very thick.

We then looked on the roof for signs of a problem up there.
Photo 2 shows where the leak is from the rear of the building.
Photo 3 shows the flat roof above. There was no obvious signs of a problem but the flat room is covered by several inches of insulation and then the pebbles.
The drain in the middle was full of stones so I cleared those but I don't imagine that would be the problem, as surely the water should have still drained through easily enough.

By removing another light in the corridor I could see where that drain enetered the building. Photo 4 shows that and shows how there's no signs of water on the outside of that pipe.

So far we have been on the roof and poured two buckets of green dye'd water down the and around the drain. No green drips have emerged in the flat. We have also poured red dye'd water down the showers, baths and sinks of the penthouse and not seen any signs of red drips either.
I checked beneath the boiler and washing machine up there too.

So............
Could this leak still be from the old shower leak, being water trapped inside or on top of lots of concrete slowly dripping down?
Or should I be getting the roof professionally inspected? I don't want to waste money if its just residual water from the shower.
Or would you go back and focus on the penthouse?

The building is only 8 years old. Im at a loss at what to do next so any ideas would be very welcome. We don't have a huge amount of money sat in the management account so we need to be sure what actions we do take are necessary.

Thanks
 

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What exactly was the "shower leak" and how do you know that it has been fixed? How can you be certain that that was the only leak in that area?
Can you see under the shower tray or bath tub?
Can you see all the pipework and waste pipes in that area?
Carefully examine all the pipes and wastes in the Penthouse.

I'm guessing but the leak from the slab seems to be ongoing - not residue finally drying out.
Its not seeping thro the concrete its coming thro the joins in the slab pour - and perhaps there's a slab repair patch just there?
Are any pipes buried or channeled in the slab?

You could remove some panels and clean up the stained soffit of the slab, and leaving the panels out wait and watch?

If i understand, there's no leakage showing on the Penthouse ceilings or walls?

A gulley guard(s) would help on the roof gullies.
Where do the roof gulley downpipes finally discharge?
 
Thanks for your reply.

The shower was leaking from where the water drains down the hole in the shower tray. The seal beneath this looked twisted and damaged so this has been replaced and the the area sealed. The shower wasnt used for several weeks after the leak was identified.
It is not possible to see beneath the shower trays or baths (theres 2 of each in the penthouse) but we have poured 3 buckets worth of water dyed red with food colouring down and water dripping down is still clear.
Most of the waste pipes are well hidden and ive examined everything that can be without dismantling the bathroom.
The problem is I dont know where to focus. I dont want to spend money taking the penthouse apart or the roof of the building when I have no idea which it is.
So you think there no chance that water could still be around from 2 months ago that is still dripping down so will eventually just dry out and stop? I thought maybe if the water is trapped between two layers of concrete it might not dry and and may still be dripping down.
It seems a huge coincidence that this started the same time as the shower leak.
I'm not aware of any pipes buried up there.
Yes, theres no sign of damage in the penthouse.
I also thought of removing part of the ceiling so that buckets can easily catch the drips and then just wait but I have the feeling this just isnt going to go away. I have no idea who to even call out to start investigating all this :/
 
i think that i made a mistake in thinking that you had suspended ceiling panels but the ceiling now appears to me to be plaster board. I guess that you took the pics thro the down light hole?
AAMOI: be aware of the overheating or shorting potential of moisture and cables esp in devices or boxes.

Do you know what make/kind of shower drain you have?
How was access gained to repair the shower drain but you cant get pics of it?

The damaged/stained plaster board will have to be future replaced so you could remove some now to expose the suspect area?

You mention "two layers of concrete" why should there be two layers? What makes you think that?

From the info. so far i guess that the roof can be ruled out as a leak source.
 
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heres a photo of the hole in the shower tray. The outer circle unscrews and beneathe that was a seal stopping any water going anywhere other than down the pipe. the seal was replaced by a plumber and then some sealant applied before the plastic ring was screwed back on. Its a porcelenosa shower tray. The shower wasnt used for several weeks whilst they waited for the new seal yet the dripping continued. I dont know if theres two layers of concrete but just thought there might be. We poured lots of dyed water through that shower tray last night but none has appeared so far.
yes its plaster board ceiling so we may have to remove some. I have no idea if to call a plumber or a roofer or even where to start. im completely stumped
 

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So the shower drain was repaired from above thro the hole in the tray? Originally, whose idea was it to hit on the shower drain as the leak suspect?

Just saying:
Plumbing supply shops used to have Peppermint oil for detecting leaks in pipework. Just a little is introduced into a waste or drain and encouraged down the pipework. If there is a leak anywhere in that drainage system then you will be able to smell it.
Smoke tests can also be used in drainage.
Cameras can be put down even 32mm pipes.

For the time being open up the p/board, clean up the stains, and wait and watch.
 

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