Vive La France!

[Notch7]

that the termination is immediately necessary to save the life

medical emergency takes precedence -Ive already stated that


You keep avoiding answering what happens if form HSA1 is not signed.

We all know the answer: no sign no approval, no abortion

 

[Notch7]

Yes HSA1 is not mentioned in the legal exemption. The only requirement the abortion act does, is create an obligation in a separate piece of law and create an offence of wilful failure.

So now you can see, that the exemption in section 1 is not dependant on any subsequent legislation in an act that did not exist at the time.

WRONG

if the form HSA1 is not signed, then an abortion does not happen...the reason is because there has been no approval

medical emergencies are a separate argument and only apply where medical takes precedence over legal

 

[motorbiking]

but you provide no legal reference to backup your argument that the abortion is unlawful, if two doctors formed the opinion that the criteria was met, but decided not to fill the paperwork, either deliberately or accidentally.

Saying WRONG means nothing. Show the law you are relying on.

What if someone thought they signed it but singed the wrong one or the form was lost?

 

[Notch7]

but you provide no legal reference to backup your argument that the abortion is unlawful, if two doctors formed the opinion that the criteria was met, but decided not to fill the paperwork, either deliberately or accidentally.

If doctors didnt fill in the paperwork then the administrative process of organising and booking an abortion wouldnt happen

its not hard:

A) 2 doctors sign form HSA1, the administration team then put it in the system and an abortion gets organised

B) 2 doctors dont fill or sign form HSA1, the administration team then dont put it in the system, no abortion gets organised

the 2 differences in these scenarios is that A) that abortion is approved and in B) ther abortion is not approved

 

[JonathanM]

But MBK is making a point not being argued

Are you sure? I'm not going to go back through 60 pages, but I am certain that there have been several times when other posters have claimed that without an HSA1 an abortion was illegal. I'm sure there were several mentions of 14 years in jail. In any event, at least now I have helped clarify what the offences are and in which situations they apply. That can only be helpful in terms of your wider debate.

 

[Notch7]

but you provide no legal reference to backup your argument that the abortion is unlawful

not relevant

because without form HSA1 being filled in and signed, an abortion wont happen

 

[motorbiking]

what if it did?

Lawful / Unlawful

?

 

[JonathanM]

He avoids stating what happens if 2 doctors don't think the grounds are met.

If no two doctors are of the opinion that the grounds are met, and an abortion goes ahead, that would be an illegal abortion under the OAPA. That is very clear.

 

[Notch7]

what if it did?

Lawful / Unlawful

?

in which case abortion wouldve taken place without approval

doesnt matter whether its deemed lawful or not

 

[Notch7]

If no two doctors are of the opinion that the grounds are met, and an abortion goes ahead, that would be an illegal abortion under the OAPA. That is very clear.

no approval was given

 

[motorbiking]

Assume for the point of arguing that the scenario did happen. Nobody can find the paperwork and nobody can remember completing it, but the two doctors definitely discussed it and agreed that the abortion met the criteria.

It later transpires they were called away to an emergency and forgot to sign the certificate of opinion.

was the abortion legal or illegal?

 

[noseall]

So now you can see, that the exemption in section 1 is not dependant on any subsequent legislation in an act that did not exist at the titime.

Regardless

An abortion in the UK requires the approval if two doctors (sign off via a HSA form) to proceed.

As I have been saying since page 30.

 

[motorbiking]

But you are wrong.

HSA 1 is not an approval document it is a certificate of opinion. Does this person's circumstances meet the criteria. Simple

 

[noseall]

So now you can see, that the exemption in section 1 is not dependant on any subsequent legislation in an act that did not exist at the titime.

Regardless

An abortion in the UK requires the approval of two doctors (sign off via a HSA form) to proceed.

As I have been saying since page 30.

 

[noseall]

But you are wrong.

HSA 1 is not an approval document it is a certificate of opinion. Does this person's circumstances meet the criteria. Simple

More irrelevant waffle