Vokera Excell 80SP -Intermittent hot water

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When I turn on hot water, the hot water does not run 9 times out of 10.

I have to try many times to get hot water to flow, or switch on heating which seems to help get the hot water flowing.

But it's unpredictable & very intermittent.


Sometimes it will run.

Sometimes it will run, if I turn tap on/off number of times.

Sometimes if I turn tap to high flow for a long period, the hot water will eventually flow (You can feel the hot water very slowly warming up).

If I switch on heating, that seems to help get the hot water flowing.

Any ideas what the problem is ??
How easy & expensive is it to fix ??
.
 
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Could be a number of things but most likely and cheapest to try first is the DHW pressure differential diaphragm valve.

Flip down the flap (?!?!) and somewhere near the middle you'll see a brass disc-shaped object with 5 screws round the edge (there's two - it's the larger one you want). As you open the hot tap, the pin in the centre of this should come out and press against the grey fulcrum arm. This then pivots and makes the microswitch, telling the boiler to fire up. Chances are that the rubber diaphragm inside the brass disc is holed or torn slightly and the pin therefore isn't coming out enough due to the pressure dif being messed up. To test, run the hot tap and pull gently back towards you on the arm where the pin should hit it. If the boiler fires and your hot water is fine, there's your problem.

New diaphragm alone, assuming no greater problem with the valve, is 5 to 10 quid. Easy enough to change - turn off the boiler, turn off the cold to the boiler, drain out by opening hot taps, remove the fulcrum arm, remove the 5 screws around the edge, replace diaphragm, reassemble in reverse order. Job's a good 'un.

As always, safety first, so if you're not comfortable sticking your hands in a boiler, get someone in.
 
As you open the hot tap, the pin in the centre of this should come out and press against the grey fulcrum arm. This then pivots and makes the microswitch, telling the boiler to fire up. Chances are that the rubber diaphragm inside the brass disc is holed or torn slightly and the pin therefore isn't coming out enough due to the pressure dif being messed up. To test, run the hot tap and pull gently back towards you on the arm where the pin should hit it. If the boiler fires and your hot water is fine, there's your problem.

New diaphragm alone, assuming no greater problem with the valve, is 5 to 10 quid. Easy enough to change - turn off the boiler, turn off the cold to the boiler, drain out by opening hot taps, remove the fulcrum arm, remove the 5 screws around the edge, replace diaphragm, reassemble in reverse order. Job's a good 'un.
Did what you say.

Initially made no difference, then magically seemed to start working & also working much better.

Possibly dicky microswitch, and/or diaphragm as you say.

===========================================
1) Turned on hot tap, no hot water as usual.

Saw arm, pin, microswitch, pin was out pushing arm.
Pulled arm gently, didn't move, seemed to be at max position already.

Gently pulled microswitch, which was already operated by system.
Water had been running for 5 minutes, still cold.

Pulled microswitch last fraction backwards/forwards, definitely already operated.

Hands off looking at boiler.
Then maybe 10-20 seconds later, I heard boiler fire up, hot water started to flow. (could indicate dicky microswitch)


2) Tested hot water, by turning on/off number of times.

Hot water flowed ok on each occasion (hasn't done that for months).


3) Turned on heating, checked hot water, which flowed ok.


4) Switched heating off, turned hot water on, hot water did not flow.

Pin was out, checked microswitch by pulling back, it had not been operated. After I pulled microswitch last fraction, which stayed operated, boiler fired up, hot water flowed.
(could indicate faulty diaphragm)

===========================================
I then noticed there is scale around the pin, a ring of scale, where it sits in off position.

Underneath seemed slighly damp and there was light scale on microswitch underneath.

I have recently noticed boiler losing pressure over weeks, with drip/damp underneath boiler in that position.

Think there could be small leak/weep from around the diaphragm pin.

Obviously scale around pin should not be there & could be restricting movement slightly.

===========================================
Is problem a faulty diaphragm and/or dicky microswitch ??

Can position of microswitch be adjusted slightly ??
 
Well the leak obviously needs to be sorted. From the flow switch diaphragm valve it wouldn't have an effect on the pressure as it's only water from the mains that goes through it. Check the diaphragm valve below the bigger one tho, as that would (that one proves the pump's working).

You need to take the DHW flow switch apart and inspect the diaphragm and clean the valve. As stated, you can get a replacement diaphragm for a few quid or valve service kits for quite a few more, if the o-rings/seals need replacing. The kits also come with the bits to do the pump pressure dif switch if necessary, altho you'll have to drain down the central heating side to do that.

When you say that you've got no hot water, what is/isn't happening? Does the pump run? The fan?
 
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When you say that you've got no hot water, what is/isn't happening? Does the pump run? The fan?
When I wasn't getting hot water, nothing was happening, just cold water flowing, couldn't hear fan change speed, not sure about pump, assume that's ok.

The microswitch wasn't closed, if I gently pulled final bit, hot water flowed ok.

The microswitch was on borderline & just needed to move that last bit.
The fulcrum arm already seemed to be at max position, if I pulled, it didn't move any further.

I assume the microswitch is on borderline of working and diaphragm needs to be changed, pin cleaned up, as you say.

The Hot Water is working better now, as I think I've loosened up the movement a bit.

I checked it numerous times, every time hot water wasn't flowing, I just moved microswitch that last bit, boiler fired up & hot water then flowed. And the microswitch stayed in closed position as well, indicating it just needed that final push.

Maybe microswitch needs changing, but I'll change diaphragm first sometime & check how it works.

The leak around the pin, is just a very tiny weep, just see few drops of water on paper underneath boiler.
 
Geegas has got this one, but it might save your legs to leave a hot tap turned on and turn the hot water off and on by turning the isolation valve off and on under the boiler. You will be able to see what happen as it happens.
 
Geegas has got this one, but it might save your legs to leave a hot tap turned on and turn the hot water off and on by turning the isolation valve off and on under the boiler. You will be able to see what happen as it happens.
Brilliant idea, or have someone else to help.

As I turned hot water on/off, only saw it after it had already moved to max/min position, I couldn't see it actually moving.
 
The operation of diverter beam is sufficient to operate the microswitch. If microswitch is not operating, I would suggest you look at the area where you have a weep and attend to it.

'Adjusting' the microswitch could lead to other problems i.e. rads heating during HW demand.
 
The operation of diverter beam is sufficient to operate the microswitch. If microswitch is not operating,
Out of interest how does this boiler switch between heating the Domestic Hot Water & Central Heating water ??

They are separate systems.

Are there separate heat exchangers ??

Looking at the Vokera manual (see page 33) the Domestic Hot Water Heat Exchanger seems to be at back of boiler, below & away from combustion chamber.

http://vokera.co.uk/wp-content/uplo...p_installation_and_servicing_instructions.pdf

I don't understand how the boiler heats the domestic hot water.
 
The water that the main heat exchanger heats, i.e. the water that goes round your rads, gets diverted instead, yes, just through the silver sandwich thing at the bottom back (plate heat exchanger), through which the cold mains also runs, the heat being transfered between the two.

How's your fault coming along?
 
The water that the main heat exchanger heats, i.e. the water that goes round your rads, gets diverted instead, yes, just through the silver sandwich thing at the bottom back (plate heat exchanger), through which the cold mains also runs, the heat being transfered between the two.

How's your fault coming along?
That's interesting, didn't realise that's how the domestic hot water is heated.

My fault is still present, hot water not coming on or coming on intermittently. I thought I'd freed up mechanism so it was working better, but it's gone back to way it was, not working very well.

I need to replace that diaphragm, which I will try to do in next month.

Looking at Fig 36F in the service manual, do you only need to remove 1 screw to remove Fulcrum Arm, or is it more ?? http://vokera.co.uk/wp-content/uplo...p_installation_and_servicing_instructions.pdf

Looking at the diagram there seem to be a few screws/nuts/fittings around the arm.
 
...but it might save your legs to leave a hot tap turned on and turn the hot water off and on by turning the isolation valve off and on under the boiler. You will be able to see what happen as it happens.
Went to try this, using DHW isolation valve under boiler to watch pin & fulcrum arm move, and the damn thing (the isolation valve) starts dripping from head.

The DHW inlet isolation valve under boiler has started dripping !!

As I turn on/off it drips more, then settles down, seems to have stopped or now just tiny weep.

My boiler is 47-094-16, but you can only download the 47-094-17 manual from Vokera website.
http://www.vokera.co.uk/home-owners/literature/

This valve shows as:
7099 (301 214) Cold Water Inlet Service Cock (Adjustable) on the 47-094-17 version.

http://vokera.co.uk/wp-content/uplo...p_installation_and_servicing_instructions.pdf

Is this valve the same on both variants of this boiler ??

Excell 80SP (Old Hydraulics) 4709416
Excell 80SP (New Hydraulics) 4709417
 

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