Wallstar cutout - can wind cause it?

[willemm001]

Does anyone have the same problem as me - a Wallstar 12/14 boiler that works fine a lot of the time but cuts out especially in gusty weather. I've lived with this problem for 12 years and it doesn't go away.

Now in my late 80's it's no fun getting up to a cold house to go outside, remove cover and reset. Have sometimes done this in freezing cold early hours before sunrise.

Serviced annually by same Oftec registered guy, he says they are prone to cutting out in wind but HRM deny this. I've had 2 of their engineers visit to find no fault and say that design is windproof. Every component that can be replaced has been. I check the flame sensor at intervals - always clean until it burns then gets replaced by serviceman.

My urban location is subject to unusual eddying winds probably due to positions of adjacent properties producing a whirlwind effect.

So - am I alone, or do others have a similar wind problem i.e nothing needs servicing, and resetting works although it can go several times if winds persist.

Is there a wind cowl that could be fitted? I know the flue needs adequate venting as any back pressure will cause cut out. Frankly if there was gas in my village I would have this system replaced as it's just not reliable.

Comments/suggestions gladly welcomed!!

 

[slapper]

I personally have fitted over 50 of these over the years and serviced a lot more. I have never heard of that problem,more likely that it could be an intermittant fuel problem.

Wallstars can and often do have problems with the combined fire/non return valve,thats where I would be looking. Cant see it being down to prevailing winds, but then again......

BTW they are a great Boiler

You might be able to get a metal elbow fabricated to fit on end of terminal to direct exhaust to the side or downwards

 

[oilhead]

In poor locations, there are valid reasons when wind can distort the flame so that it is not seen by the photocell. You refer to the fact that the photocell burns, and this is the only forward firimg boiler that appears to suffer from this, so that suggests that there are circumstances when the flue does not clear the gases.
Another factor in this is that you are taking combustion air directly from outside ( without the benefit of prewarming as in balanced flues) and I think that sometimes technicians err on the side of caution when setting combustion, and leaving CO2 on the low side. With a heavily charged damp air supply, this reduces the CO2 even more, producing 'blue flame' combustion, which the photocell will not see. As Slapper says, the fire/NRV unit can cause problems over time, and also, some misguided installers fit a further non return valve at the tank, which makes the pump work harder, and on older ( therefore slightly worn) pumps can cause nuisance lockouts.
First off, ask your technician to check CO2 is as specified, preferably in cool/cold conditions; also a small sighting hole in the diffuser to the photocell may help. Next, replace the fire valve, and remove any additional NRV's.

 

[willemmOO1]

Thanks for that slapper.

Can you elaborate of the problem caused by the non-return valve as this has never been said to be a cause by my serviceman who has about 15 years experience with Wallstars.

I have fitted a baffle panel to the north side of the flue as that was at one time the most frequent direction of wind affecting cutouts, but today its from SW. Cutouts on other occasions have been from other than north.

As I said, it's been a problem since moving in new, every year. The issue becomes clouded when there is a fault with burnt sensor or failing transformer, coil, or whetever when it's also been windy.

I'd like to know more about the non-return valve problem before I take the matter up with my serviceman.

 

[willemmOO1]

Thanks too oilhead.

I'm not aware of any other nr valve such as in tank, but what you say interests me because many/most cutouts not due to component failing are during the coldness of night.

My service never includes a CO2 check - it's usually just a clean up and replacement of nozzle. Is a flue analysis part of a routine service? Should a standard service include this, if so I'm not getting one but the guy is Oftec registered.

HRM did test flue analysis a few years ago but found it OK.

 

[dcawkwell]

The most frequent problem on the wall stars
being a wall mounted boiler is the non return valve leaks
a bit and oil drops back towards the tank meaning when the boiler
goes to fire it doesn't get the oil before it locks out.

Replace non return valve and ensure the oil line is perfect with no
joints. Any imperfect joints mean air can get drawn into the fuel line.

Also if there is a water contamination in the tank. Do you have an old
steel tank? If the is water in the fuel line and this freezes again fuel
problems occur.

The burner shouldn't create a problem with wind as it blows the air out of the boiler at a fair rate.

I would look for fuel problems first before looking at the boiler.
The burner should have a CO2 check at every service. If you don't
see your oil man get a flue gas analyser out when doing a service.
Take him to task. He should also give you an oftec service report with
these readings on.

 

[willemmOO1]

Thanks dcawkwell for more useful info.
Tank is plastic bunded so no contamination problem.
Plastic tube from feed to burner has a bend, and it''s always full of oil with small air bubble that never moves and which I read somewhere is normal.
The annual service never gets flue test - I'm always here and see what's done. Also never get a service report - just the bill.
Thanks to all for your advice, you've given me enough info to follow up - all pointing to non-return valve and need for CO2 test. (and maybe a new serviceman).

 

[huntsoil]

look just get a metal guard, a piece of aluminum either side or up and over the terminal of the boiler. if your in the middle of a field or other open area then this problem will always happen. The wind blows the flame then it cuts out. always happens.

 

[Boilerman2]

The Baffle that you have fixed to the flue terminal to protect against a "NORTH" wind will actually be making the situation worse when the wind is from a "SOUTHERLY" direction, as the wind will be forced straight into the outlet.
The design of the Walllstar is one of a Balanced Flue and therefore no modification should be fitted to the flueing arrangement

 

[Andy4444]

but the guy is Oftec registered.

OP are you really in your eighties? I have to ask as most eighty something's I know do not use the term "guy"?

I stand to be corrected.....

 

[willemmOO1]

Interesting comment Boilerman2 about my baffle position as I'd wondered about that myself. When cutout's go without good reason you tend (I tend) to try desperate measures. I'd had the baffle up in the past, took it down when the problem seemed to go away, then it kept returning but for different reasons. Burnt sensor, worn pump, failing transformer, failed or failing coil.

Put baffle back up few weeks ago as north winds were then gusting. Random cut outs continued, serviceman said transformer probably going. New one fitted - OK for couple of weeks then another early-hours cut out yesterday but wind from South-west. My old baffle remedy had seemed a good idea but could have been the cause so will again remove it for Boilerman2's logical reason.

My location isn't exposed in middle of field but does get little whirlwinds close to house, piling up leaves etc.

At least one more (huntsoil) has similar problem, and my neighbours have experienced cut outs too but not sure how often.

And yes - awowen - actually I am 18 months short of 90 but thought use of 'guy' fairly common. It means a young man so to me anyone under 70 is young!

 

[oilhead]

Futher comments point to fuel supply. If you are 'wearing out' transformers, this suggests regular flame loss and re-ignition. All seems to point to non return valve. I've replaced three this autumn and only service five wallstars. The fact your air bubble is static and not bubbling suggests a sound oil line, but if the non return valve has failed, then the oil pump has a lot to do to pull it back.

 

[Boilerman2]

Other popular causes of intermitant Lock out on Wallstars include (in no particular order)

- Firevalve-NRV
- Solenoid Coil
- Capacitor
- Control Box

 

[willemmOO1]

As you say Boilerman2, there appear to be quite a few electro-mechanical components in oil-fired CH systems that can become the cause of intermittent faults - the worst kind of all, coming and going without a clue why.

I've not so far had a capacitor replaced, didn't know there was one so another suspect added to my list. The control box has lasted about 10 years so it could be its turn to go 'intermittent'.

Now all seems to be OK I'll see what the omens are next time it goes, and if it's cold and damp the suspicion falls on CO2 adjustment - but then again it could be another one of those pesky intermittents.............

Either way, the NR Fire valve will get its comeuppance

 

[Agile]

Congratulations at getting close to 90.

An old ex-BBC colleague was very close to 90 a year ago but developed an anurism but his doctor said there was a very good chance he would reach 90.

Until very recently he was cycling regularly and was the secretary of a cycling association until about five years ago.

I used to email him ever six months. A year ago I asked if he was still alive and he replied within 20 minutes to say if not then who was writing the email. But six months ago I did not get any reply! I will send another email tonight! But he is not on the BBC Engineering "deaths" list !

Tony