Water Softener and Boilers (again)!

[mdrandall]

I know this subject has been covered before but I am trying to find a solution.

I have a new-ish house with a Megaflow and an Ideal Condensing boiler. The water quality in our area very hard and I would like to fit a water softener e.g. Kinetico 2020c Hi-Flow. However, a big label on the boiler states that softened water should not be used.

In the loft is a small header tank for topping up the heating circuit. It's almost impossible to run a separate feed from the rising main to this tank.

So, is the preferred solution to turn off the header tank and keep checking regularly, topping up with a jug/garden hose?

Alternatively, assuming no leaks in the heating system, how much water is taken from the header tank? Over time, will the water in the system gradually be replaced with softened water i.e. potentially damaging the boiler? Doesn't the inhibitor (Fernox) prevent any corrosion problems?

Obviously, if we ever drained the heating system, the header tank could be refilled from the garden hose or by using the softener bypass facility.

Thanks for any advice.

 

[Agile]

If this is a heat only boiler as I expect then the system water is in contact with the aluminium heat exchanger and any trace of salt will seriously corrode it.

Ion exchange water softeners regenerate with salt solution and can give significant salt output in the softened water immediately after regeneration. Much more if faulty or out of adjustment.

The kitchen sink should be fed directly from the mains and that is how most boilers are topped up on a sealed system.

I am surprised that you have a condensing boiler which is not on a sealed system. I did not think any Ideals allowed that.

Unless you can provide an unsoftened feed then you will have to top up with a jug. With a well fitting lid and correctly plumbed F&E cistern you will lose much less than a litre per week. With most F&E tanks you could top up every month.

Tony

 

[ollski]

Could you not just convert to a sealed system and top up from the bypass on the softener?

 

[mdrandall]

Thanks for the very quick reply.

The boiler is an Ideal Icos HE24.

I'm am assuming that the mini header tank in the loft is a feed/expansion tank for the heating circuit but maybe it's not. Are you saying that the whole heating system should sealed? If so I wonder what the header tank is for - there are empty Fernox bottles next to the tank left by the builders.

Topping up the header tank with a jug is not my preferred solution of course, but it sound the only one. After the rising main in the kitchen cupboard, the mains pipe disappears into the cavity wall so I have no way of tapping into it prior to any water softener (except for drinking tap and garden tap which are already fitted).

Even if I could run off another feed, I can't imagine any way of routing a pipe from the kitchen to the loft which would meet with the approval of my resident interior designer!

 

[Agile]

Thats confused me!

I do hope that you will be feeding unsoftened water to the kitchen tap!

Some of the retired people here may have time to look up to see if the Icos can be fitted to an open vented system.

Whats the height between the top of boiler and base of F&E tank?

Tony

 

[mdrandall]

Sorry if I confused, there is already a Culligan twin filter and separate tap attached to the kitchen sink which will remain fed directly from the hard water mains. Also the garden tap will continue to have hard water.

The water softener could be fitted under the kitchen sink, just before the mains pipe disappears into the cavity wall so everything from there onwards will be softened water.

One pipe somehow gets from the cavity wall into the airing cupboard and then splits in two. One part feeds the Megaflow supply (not heating coil) and the other part goes up into the loft to the ballcock on the mini header tank. So the boiler is on the ground floor, Mageflow on the first floor and header tank in the loft.


Thanks for any further ideas as this problem could prevent us getting a water softener. All the other plumbing is straight forward except for this boiler feed.

I will also try to track down the original plumber and see what he says about whether the heating system should be (or could be) sealed.

 

[Agile]

Its usual for the Icos to be fitted to a sealed system but there may have been versions designed for open systems.

If there is no pressure gauge underneath then its probably designed for OV useage.

Even if it were not intended for OV applications having a good head of water above it like you have will ensure it will work fine regardless.

Sounds as if you may have to top up each month. If so it might be worth rigging up a float switch and alarm to alert you to the need to top up.

Tony

 

[mdrandall]

Sounds as if you may have to top up each month. If so it might be worth rigging up a float switch and alarm to alert you to the need to top up.

Tony

Now that's a good idea. It's easy for me to shut off the feed to the header tank and then fit an alarm. Any suggestions where they are sold? Thanks

Converting the whole system to a sealed one sounds complicated to me. I'm sure the original plumber did a good job but it may not have been pressure tested. I think I would also need to install a feed loop, pressure regulator, expansion tank etc.

 

[ollski]

Sounds as if you may have to top up each month. If so it might be worth rigging up a float switch and alarm to alert you to the need to top up.

Tony

Now that's a good idea. It's easy for me to shut off the feed to the header tank and then fit an alarm. Any suggestions where they are sold? Thanks

Converting the whole system to a sealed one sounds complicated to me. I'm sure the original plumber did a good job but it may not have been pressure tested. I think I would also need to install a feed loop, pressure regulator, expansion tank etc.

RS components etc will sell a variety of float switches including at least one specifically for this. Sealed dystem kit comes with everything you need for about 100 quid.