Wet rot coniophora puteana

[LadyHomeLover]

Unfortunately, that's how these people operate. Wind up the fear factor and then move in with the unnecessary work and extortionate prices.

You were RIGHT! I borrowed a damp meter and discovered by placing it all over the alcove that what I have here are two completely separate problems, something that the damp "specialist" failed to notice.

The meter says that the wall is very wet (off the scale) up to about 6 inches above the skirting, then it is absolutely dry. The centre of the wall, with the black spores, isn't coming from below at all, but from above! There is a thin line of damp readings from the ceiling to the spores, but then beneath the spores the wall reading is completely dry from side to side for about 3 feet, until just 6 inches above the skirting.

Went up to the bedroom above, and to the other bedroom above THAT bedroom, and there is the same thing: an invisible vertical line, about 3 inches wide, showing high wetness, the rest of the alcove bone dry. This vertical line goes from the ceiling of the 2nd floor room right down in a straight line to the alcove in the lounge, where the spores are.

My conclusion is that I have (1) a roof leak and (2) damp coming from beneath the floorboards.

The black spores are unconnected to the floor damp, but have appeared where the roof leak water has decided to "pool".

I must confess, I feel relieved at this discovery. Yes it means I need a roofer, but that is better than ripping up an entire newly laid laminate floor!

you do need to remove that bottom panel and skirting. The side pieces will be fine and, if appropriate, a new bottom panel could be re fitted without too much disruption. But, unfortunately, it does need to come out. I would get that done first and then report back with what you find.

Thanks Jeds.

Did that yesterday. Lifting the base panel took ages as the screws had been countersunk extremely deeply and the gap all around packed with ancient filler. Needed an hour's work with a Stanley knife! But I digress...

The rot was not as bad as I thought it would be. Only half of one floorboard was rotten enough to be pulled out by hand, the rest of that one and all the others are sound. Looking at the joists underneath, the ends are rotten, but not to the point of collapse. I don't think they need replacing.

I am convinced that the problem has arisen because the 4 air bricks outside the room right at that corner are far too low ~ they are level with the patio! We had a LOT of torrential rain a few months ago, and the patio flooded over and over. So much water must have literally poured through the air bricks and into the space beneath the floor boards.

Today I am going to examine and decide how to get more air to circulate under that panel and into that hole in the floor.

I shall also at some point cut out all the crumbling plaster and the plaster with the black spores.

I'm not going to get the whole alcove replastered, just a patch where I have cut out.

I'm not paying £1,800 to some blooming shyster to rip me off! But I will be paying a roofer to repair the roof and a builder to change the outside so that the air bricks don't let in any more water!

I hope I am making the right and wise choice!

I'm adding some pics. Those aren't my hairy arms in the photo, by the way! A friend kindly offered to help me to uncover the problem!

LHL

 

[LadyHomeLover]

Photos

View of base with distance to black spores.



Base panel in place.




Lifted base panel and drilled hole for inspection camera




Removed all rotten bit of floorboard and entire skirting board.

 

[jeds]

Today I am going to examine and decide how to get more air to circulate under that panel and into that hole in the floor. LHL

Air circulation is key. The sub floor voids in Victorian houses are often damp and short of rebuilding there's often not a lot you can do about it, but as long as there is good air circulation it isn't a problem. Looking at the area below the bottom panel I'd say you aren't in bad shape. With the level of dampness you are finding, if there was any chance of dry rot taking hold you'd have it by now. Pursue the ventilation. Use treated timber to replace the floor board and treat anything else you can get at with 'Boron Ultra 12' which you can buy online. You may not actually need it but as it's all exposed you might as well. As for the plaster just make sure whoever does it uses the correct material. Standard bonding, browning or universal undercoat plaster is a no-no. They must use a renovation plaster such as Limelite renovating plaster or similar.

 

[LadyHomeLover]

Air circulation is key. The sub floor voids in Victorian houses are often damp and short of rebuilding there's often not a lot you can do about it, but as long as there is good air circulation it isn't a problem. Looking at the area below the bottom panel I'd say you aren't in bad shape. With the level of dampness you are finding, if there was any chance of dry rot taking hold you'd have it by now. Pursue the ventilation. Use treated timber to replace the floor board and treat anything else you can get at with 'Boron Ultra 12' which you can buy online. You may not actually need it but as it's all exposed you might as well. As for the plaster just make sure whoever does it uses the correct material. Standard bonding, browning or universal undercoat plaster is a no-no. They must use a renovation plaster such as Limelite renovating plaster or similar.

Cheers John

Here are my plans:

I'm going to drill a line of holes along that front plinth. If I use a tape measure and a spirit level they won't look too bad if they are regular and level. That will let air in.

For a while, I'm going to leave off the skirting board, and not replace that rotten bit of floorboard. That will allow even more air circulation.

I'll buy that Boron you suggest and treat everything that can be reached. Edited to add: I just looked it up and it's a woodworm treatment ~ is that what you meant?

I'll replace that base panel, but drill a load of holes in it.

After doing all the above, I will be able to reiinsert all the shelf units and put my huge video and DVD collection back, but put everything at the front of the shelves and leave big gaps behind for air circulation.

I thought I'd have a go at patch-plastering myself. It surely can't be that difficult. So thanks for the tip about Limelite.

LHL

 

[jeds]

Woodworm and dry rot. The small 200g bag goes a long way. Try the link below.

www.boron.org.uk/Boron_shop.htm

 

[drpepe]

I'm going to drill a line of holes along that front plinth. If I use a tape measure and a spirit level they won't look too bad if they are regular and level. That will let air in.L

You could get an attractive brass or steel long grill cover to screw on along that plinth
(or several shorter ones) rather than exposed drill holes.

 

[ree]

LHL,

You were asked in my original post to provide a pic of the "fireplace opening" ie the face of the chimney breast. My purpose in asking was to check for the condition and ventilation of the flue. Which would have led me to questions about the upper floors and roof and c/stack.

On sun sept 21 para 7. I mentioned that "other outstanding issues" were possible.

To confirm your theory about roof leak(s) then you will have to go in the attic/loft and investigate. Pics of the roof line and c/stack would help.

Coniophora requires timber as an original source to feed on. Where is the original timber source? Perhaps, open up a patch around the mycelium and post pics?

Its not possible from the pic to determine the depth of joists above oversite, or the oversite conditions.

Do you expect built-in fungal rotten joist tails to remain static? They have to come out. The RH joist appears lower than the other joist? What is the condition of the LH joist tight to the c/breast cheek?

How is Boron supposed to reach the built-in joist seats? Especially water diluted Boron - there's a professional non-diluting Boron. Doubtful that you can source it?

I repeat, you cut out all damaged wood well back to sound timber, & then treat.

You should knockoff all plaster around the joist tails - 6" above, & below them as well, and remove the RH recess skirting, & plaster behind the skirting.

Your joists are running the "wrong" way to provide good thro ventilation.

 

[ree]

To all interested viewers, i post mainly for your remedial interests etc. So, if you have any questions about what i say or why i say it do please ask. What often seems clear to me could be baffling to you as DIY'ers - just as your work would most probably baffle me.

Just saying.

 

[LadyHomeLover]

LHL,

You were asked in my original post to provide a pic of the "fireplace opening" ie the face of the chimney breast. My purpose in asking was to check for the condition and ventilation of the flue. Which would have led me to questions about the upper floors and roof and c/stack.

There is a fireplace in place. There isn't anything for you to see. See pic

To confirm your theory about roof leak(s) then you will have to go in the attic/loft and investigate. Pics of the roof line and c/stack would help.

Coniophora requires timber as an original source to feed on. Where is the original timber source? Perhaps, open up a patch around the mycelium and post pics?

Its not possible from the pic to determine the depth of joists above oversite, or the oversite conditions.

Do you expect built-in fungal rotten joist tails to remain static? They have to come out. The RH joist appears lower than the other joist? What is the condition of the LH joist tight to the c/breast cheek?

How is Boron supposed to reach the built-in joist seats? Especially water diluted Boron - there's a professional non-diluting Boron. Doubtful that you can source it?

I repeat, you cut out all damaged wood well back to sound timber, & then treat.

You should knockoff all plaster around the joist tails - 6" above, & below them as well, and remove the RH recess skirting, & plaster behind the skirting.

Your joists are running the "wrong" way to provide good thro ventilation.

Oooh blimey so many questions.... thank you for your interest.

I cannot get up in the loft, must call a roofer.

I am loath to rip up my floor unless there is no alternative. This would have to be ripped up to get at the whole joist.

"Coniophora requires timber as an original source to feed on. Where is the original timber source?" I don't know. I removed the loose and crumbly plaster today.

LHL

 

[ree]

LHL, are you serious? You are in the middle of investigating the problem(s) and you put back the shelves and chattels, and then decide to knock off plaster?

All that shelving etc. must come out so that you can preserve your objects from dust & debris, & i can reference the pics and the mycelium spread.

Where you have removed some "loose and crumbly" skim layers of plaster, mycelium strands can be seen underneath. This mycelium must be exposed & followed.
You will have to keep knocking off plaster (back to brickwork) to trace the path of the fungal strands back to their source - there is no easier or softer way of doing this. Follow the mycelium strands under the plaster.

You must also expose the brickwork around the joist tails.



There are ways of cutting & replacing the joist tails without removing the full length of joist. Perhaps the work could be confined to the recess area.

The fireplace pic was requested as part of a process of elimination - a process i explained above.
How was i to know what was there or was not there without a pic?

 

[LadyHomeLover]

LHL, are you serious? You are in the middle of investigating the problem(s) and you put back the shelves and chattels, and then decide to knock off plaster?

All that shelving etc. must come out so that you can preserve your objects from dust & debris, & i can reference the pics and the mycelium spread.

Where you have removed some "loose and crumbly" skim layers of plaster, mycelium strands can be seen underneath. This mycelium must be exposed & followed.
You will have to keep knocking off plaster (back to brickwork) to trace the path of the fungal strands back to their source - there is no easier or softer way of doing this. Follow the mycelium strands under the plaster.

You must also expose the brickwork around the joist tails.

There are ways of cutting & replacing the joist tails without removing the full length of joist. Perhaps the work could be confined to the recess area.

The fireplace pic was requested as part of a process of elimination - a process i explained above.
How was i to know what was there or was not there without a pic?

Hi Ree.

Not responding to the request for a fireplace photo was just an oversight on my part, owing to being more than a bit overwhelmed by all the responses on here, all the questions, all the advice, much of it contradicting other advice. I didn't sit down and give it consideration and then decide not to sent it

I didn't put back the shelves and chattels, I never took them down. I do not think I will be able to remove the wall shelves at all other than by demolishing and destroying them. I'll have to get a builder in to do that if it's really essential.

Exposing the brickwork around the joist tails is also a major undertaking and not one that I can possibly do myself. I can't even get the floorboards up in the recess.

I thought I'd done quite well yesterday and am rather crestfallen that you find my efforts nothing like good enough. That took the wind out of my sails.

I dread getting anyone in, dread the disruption and upheaval, the mess, the damage and the expense.

Oh dear

LHL

 

[ladylola]

I can understand why you are reluctant to take up the floor so I would suggest that you start by removing the boards in the alcove , seen in the picture where you have drilled a hole in them. This will enable you to stick your head under the floor to look at the other parts of the floor. You could also hold a camera down there as far as can reach , all will help you form a picture of what is happening under that laminate.

 

[LadyHomeLover]

I can understand why you are reluctant to take up the floor so I would suggest that you start by removing the boards in the alcove , seen in the picture where you have drilled a hole in them. This will enable you to stick your head under the floor to look at the other parts of the floor. You could also hold a camera down there as far as can reach , all will help you form a picture of what is happening under that laminate.

Thank you. yes, can definitely o that. My friend has a multitool that can cut straight across those boards. Then he has a special camera on a bendy wand though, actually, I think that for a clearer pic I might just stick my digital camera down there and take a few pics with the flash on.

 

[ree]

I was wrong about the shelves etc. being removed and replaced. I apologise.

As always, good advice from ladylola.

Take a hammer, not the wooden mallet, and lightly tap the plaster around the joist tails in the recess - the plaster will fall off, and the brickwork will be exposed.

Do the same to the plaster around the conophiora strands. Leave your shelves etc. alone, forget about them.

If you can tie your shoe laces then you can do the above. How can anything be simpler than 10 mins of tapping a wall with a hammer?

 

[LadyHomeLover]

I was wrong about the shelves etc. being removed and replaced. I apologise.

As always, good advice from ladylola.

Take a hammer, not the wooden mallet, and lightly tap the plaster around the joist tails in the recess - the plaster will fall off, and the brickwork will be exposed.

Do the same to the plaster around the conophiora strands. Leave your shelves etc. alone, forget about them.

If you can tie your shoe laces then you can do the above. How can anything be simpler than 10 mins of tapping a wall with a hammer?

Hi Ree

Can I just check some things?

You write of plaster around the joist tails. There isn't any plaster there. The joists are timber. Where were you expecting to find plaster?

The plaster that I have not removed is very sound and won't come off without a really good bash. Are you saying that I should indeed bash off sound plaster?

Thank you

LHL