Wetroom requirements and 12v extractor costs

[masamune]

Well, you don't need a separate circuit to be able to fit a 2P isolator for the outside lights, and that deals with those objections.

He has fitted the PIR to a permanent feed on the same feed as the ceiling downlights.

What would you propose? Time to chase the wall and make a new switch I suppose?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You seem to be conflating a number of shortcomings.

You objected to the commonality of circuit because of nuisance trips. It's not the commonality which is the problem - it's the lack of a way to isolate the lights.

What would you propose? Time to chase the wall and make a new switch I suppose?

Once there's been a ****-up, and the decorations are finished, rectifying it can often be disruptive, whatever it is.

 

[masamune]

But the most likely trip would be an earth leakage one, so even if you had 2 circuits you'd have to make sure they were on different RCDs, and unless you had an RCD dedicated to the outside lights, or were using RCBOs, they would be sharing an RCD with something.

Fair enough, but it's a dual RCD CU and he could split MCBs across the two.

Thank god he didn't do the same with the IP rated socket...

 

[masamune]

You seem to be conflating a number of shortcomings.

You objected to the commonality of circuit because of nuisance trips. It's not the commonality which is the problem - it's the lack of a way to isolate the lights.

Both, you should be able to isolate lights intended for completely different functions. Also water ingress in the outdoor lights could cause a trip although rare. But I think the switch is the only solution now.

Once there's been a ****-up, and the decorations are finished, rectifying it can often be disruptive, whatever it is.

Indeed...

 

[EFLImpudence]

What are you going to do when a washing machine fault (or similar) causes your outside light to stop working?

 

[JohnW2]

Thank god he didn't do the same with the IP rated socket...

I know what you (presumably) mean but, just for the benefit of any readers who do not realise this, there is a requirement for all sockets (indeed, all electrical equipment) to be "IP rated", whether in a living room, bathroom, garden or wherever, the important point being that of what IP rating is required in each of those locations.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

What are you going to do when a washing machine fault (or similar) causes your outside light to stop working?

Unplug the washing machine and turn the RCD back on.

 

[masamune]

What are you going to do when a washing machine fault (or similar) causes your outside light to stop working?

But this can happen to any household when things trip the RCDs. We are not discussing the same problem here. The washing machine has an isolator and/or a plug.

If the PIR is at fault I would now have to go outdoors, disconnect the entire unit and isolate the wiring.

The point I was making is that it is not reasonable to combine outside/inside for obvious reasons, imagine having to do the above when it's raining or freezing cold, at night time, having to climb 3 meters high etc...

 

[JohnW2]

If the PIR is at fault I would now have to go outdoors, disconnect the entire unit and isolate the wiring.

Yes, but as has been pointed out to you, that problem can be averted by having an (indoor) double pole isolator for the outside lights - there's no need for them to have a separate circuit.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Fair enough, but it's a dual RCD CU and he could split MCBs across the two.

So the outside/inside would still be combined, unless all the external circuits were on one RCD, and all the internal on the other, and that would not be a good design.

You do seem to be missing the point - the real failure was not providing a way to isolate the outside light, not putting it on the same MCB or RCD as other things.

 

[EFLImpudence]

But this can happen to any household when things trip the RCDs. We are not discussing the same problem here. The washing machine has an isolator and/or a plug.

My comment was sarcasm because, as others have said, you do (did) not seem to realise the actual solution.

The point I was making is that it is not reasonable to combine outside/inside for obvious reasons,

That's not correct for the same reason that you do not seem to mind the washing machine being on a circuit with other things.

 

[masamune]

Yes, but as has been pointed out to you, that problem can be averted by having an (indoor) double pole isolator for the outside lights - there's no need for them to have a separate circuit.

Kind Regards, John

I don't have either, that was my two part point. On one end the design is not good, on the other end there is not even an isolation switch.
I am not arguing they are mutually inclusive.

 

[JohnW2]

I don't have either, that was my two part point.

Yes, but you seemed to be suggesting that have them on the same circuit was, in itself a problem. As has been said, it would be no problem if an isolator were fitted.

For that reason, 'to have neither' is not a good practice, but it's not explicitly contrary to any regulations (although there are some vague regs which some people might feel were being contravened).

Kind Regards, John

 

[masamune]

Yes, but you seemed to be suggesting that have them on the same circuit was, in itself a problem. As has been said, it would be no problem if an isolator were fitted.

For that reason, 'to have neither' is not a good practice, but it's not explicitly contrary to any regulations (although there are some vague regs which some people might feel were being contravened).

Kind Regards, John

But we are not arguing any points about regs. It's only good practices and common sense which are lacking here.

I would still keep outdoor lights on their own circuit. A very practical reason is that if you had to work on lighting due to an emergency in the evening, you would not have to turn off indoor lighting which very disruptive. Some people wouldn't mind having all their house lights on one MCB.

 

[JohnW2]

I would still keep outdoor lights on their own circuit. A very practical reason is that if you had to work on lighting due to an emergency in the evening, you would not have to turn off indoor lighting which very disruptive.

It would, but if there were an isolator for the outside lights, you would not have to turn off the indoor lighting to work on the outside lighting.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with having separate circuits, but there are simpler and cheaper ways of avoiding the problems you are thinking about.

Kind Regards, John