The bypass has to be after the pump, this would be difficult to achieve on a heat only boiler where the pump is external!
What's wrong with my Vaillant Ecotec Plus boiler?
- Thread starter MaryJane7
- Start date
The bypass has to be after the pump, this would be difficult to achieve on a heat only boiler where the pump is external!
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I have assumed, rightly or wrongly, all along that it had a new pump and controls at the time of boiler change as this is what I always do when replacing a boiler 
Mary Jane, don't forget to report back the d40 & d41 readings
I am starting to think that there may be a basic problem in the design of these boards, as we get so many of these S53 problems occuring
Perhaps it's time for Vaillant to investigate and perhaps own up to something they are not telling us
Mary Jane, don't forget to report back the d40 & d41 readings
I am starting to think that there may be a basic problem in the design of these boards, as we get so many of these S53 problems occuring
Perhaps it's time for Vaillant to investigate and perhaps own up to something they are not telling us
Dave, do you know if there are any additional "engineer" settings which enable the S53 parameters to be varied?
Have you ever measured the flow/return differential temperature to see at what value the S53 appears?
Tony
Have you ever measured the flow/return differential temperature to see at what value the S53 appears?
Tony
link to the manual if it helps Tony
http://www.vaillant.co.uk/stepone2/...plus_open_vent_installation_and_servicing.pdf
matt
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O P, I think by now I'd have taken the head off the pump to look for blockages, or evidence of dirt which would indicate there could be more elsewhere. That's free!!
Also. sensors can be a bit odd. A new pair wouldn't cost a fortune. Or you could buy one and try it in each position, if you're feeling parsimonious.
Also. sensors can be a bit odd. A new pair wouldn't cost a fortune. Or you could buy one and try it in each position, if you're feeling parsimonious.
The installer did change the pump at an earlier stage Chris.
My question was are there any "engineer" settings available which are not given in the book?
Perusing the MI further, does anyone know the relationship between S53 and the F23 ? The status seems to persist for a limited time. Does the fault operate if the required parameters do not present with that allocated time slot?
Tony
PS the Stoves Precision 1100 range in the kitchen has developed a serious malfuction on the electric oven and control tonight!
My question was are there any "engineer" settings available which are not given in the book?
Perusing the MI further, does anyone know the relationship between S53 and the F23 ? The status seems to persist for a limited time. Does the fault operate if the required parameters do not present with that allocated time slot?
Tony
PS the Stoves Precision 1100 range in the kitchen has developed a serious malfuction on the electric oven and control tonight!
I have had the same bother on the two 400,s i have installed.In both cases it
was the pump speed/bypass that was set wrong.
was the pump speed/bypass that was set wrong.
Thanks for your postings, sorry for delay in replying, I had the installer here yesterday and then I've been trying more experiments (except when I've been lying down in a dark room with a headache ... !).
I'll reply to all queries first.
1) the new boiler was fitted in February 2008, the Honeywell power head for motor valve was fitted in April 2008 and the new pump was fitted in December 2008 but I haven't had any new controls put in (I've got a Dayton Tempus 7 and a bi-metallic wall thermostat).
2) When I got the S.53 error (warm start up) d40 was initially 62 before it dropped (rapidly) to 42, meanwhile the d41 reading was 28. After the S.53 error had been displayed for 5 minutes the readings were d40=50 and d41=36. After a few more minutes the S.53 error was replaced by S.4 and everything started working again.
3) The installer said that the radiators were balanced on installation. The lockshield on the living room radiator was already open.
4) I asked the installer about whether he would check for me if the ntc's are fitted in the correct position, but he said that the Vaillant engineer would have done that.
5) Just for interest, as Tony mentioned it, I had the F23 message (once) as well as S.53 messages before the new pump was fitted
6) I've increased d1 from 5 to 10, as Dave abd Tony recommended
So, my installer came round yesterday morning.
I told him that Tony and Dave had very helpfully suggested that I reduce the boiler output from 18kWatts (to 8kWatts) to help with the problem, and that running at 8KWatts meant that there are now no S53 errors on cold start up (only on warm start up).
My installer has now decided that there is 'a blockage in circulation on heating side'. He had a look at the three port valve to see if it needed cleaning but said that it was clean. His next plan is:
1) to add descaler, leave for 7 days and flush out (I live in a hard water area)
2) if this doesn't work then (gulp) he thinks that he'll have to start replacing my central heating pipes.
This morning (d0=8) everything worked fine on cold start up and then, strangely enough, I artificially induced two warm start ups (by turning the room thermostat right down to turn the heating off, getting S.30, leaving for 30 minutes and then turning the room thermostat right up again) and there was no S53. I'll try all this again tomorrow when I'm feeling stronger ...!!
Any further advice/ suggestions gratefully received!!
Thank you, Mary Jane
I'll reply to all queries first.
1) the new boiler was fitted in February 2008, the Honeywell power head for motor valve was fitted in April 2008 and the new pump was fitted in December 2008 but I haven't had any new controls put in (I've got a Dayton Tempus 7 and a bi-metallic wall thermostat).
2) When I got the S.53 error (warm start up) d40 was initially 62 before it dropped (rapidly) to 42, meanwhile the d41 reading was 28. After the S.53 error had been displayed for 5 minutes the readings were d40=50 and d41=36. After a few more minutes the S.53 error was replaced by S.4 and everything started working again.
3) The installer said that the radiators were balanced on installation. The lockshield on the living room radiator was already open.
4) I asked the installer about whether he would check for me if the ntc's are fitted in the correct position, but he said that the Vaillant engineer would have done that.
5) Just for interest, as Tony mentioned it, I had the F23 message (once) as well as S.53 messages before the new pump was fitted
6) I've increased d1 from 5 to 10, as Dave abd Tony recommended
So, my installer came round yesterday morning.
I told him that Tony and Dave had very helpfully suggested that I reduce the boiler output from 18kWatts (to 8kWatts) to help with the problem, and that running at 8KWatts meant that there are now no S53 errors on cold start up (only on warm start up).
My installer has now decided that there is 'a blockage in circulation on heating side'. He had a look at the three port valve to see if it needed cleaning but said that it was clean. His next plan is:
1) to add descaler, leave for 7 days and flush out (I live in a hard water area)
2) if this doesn't work then (gulp) he thinks that he'll have to start replacing my central heating pipes.
This morning (d0=8) everything worked fine on cold start up and then, strangely enough, I artificially induced two warm start ups (by turning the room thermostat right down to turn the heating off, getting S.30, leaving for 30 minutes and then turning the room thermostat right up again) and there was no S53. I'll try all this again tomorrow when I'm feeling stronger ...!!
Any further advice/ suggestions gratefully received!!
Thank you, Mary Jane
Oops, how did that smiley face turn up in my last paragraph?! Think I must have done a typo.
I meant to write that when the boiler started up this morning d0 was set at 8.
Thanks
I meant to write that when the boiler started up this morning d0 was set at 8.
Thanks
This is clearly the root of the S53. Temp differential should not be that big. Clear sign of lack or circualtion/blockage.
Perhaps his excuse for not knowing himself
Did he physically drain the system down and remove the 3 port valve body? If not how could he see it was clean and working properly
Thanks for your posting, Dave.
I saw the installer drain the system down (pipes with water in them went out of the front door) and then he was using a spanner to (presumably) dismantle the 3 port valve body. I didn't actually go up to watch at that point.
Mary Jane
I saw the installer drain the system down (pipes with water in them went out of the front door) and then he was using a spanner to (presumably) dismantle the 3 port valve body. I didn't actually go up to watch at that point.
Mary Jane
D
Deleted member 105431
It has been known for the ball/paddle of the 3port to become dislodged and cause this problem. Maybe that is what he was checking for also?
I haven't read all the posts but if you have a microbore system you may have a resctricted manifold.
Converting to a sealed system and fitting a 6m head pump such as the grundfos 15/60 would help the system too.
To recap Jane.
The boiler does not restart unless the temperature across the heat exchanger is not too wide. No one seems to know what but perhaps about 10°. It then displays S53. If that temp diference does not reduce within the waiting time ( 10 min? ) the F23 will be displayed.
When the room stat turns off the boiler it continues to run the pump for a time set in d1. This circulates water round the radiators and helps to stabilise flow and return temperatures. It was 5 min and you increased it to 10 min. It might further reduce the incidence of S53 if you increase this further but there does seem to be a very poor flow rate round your heating circuit when the TRVs are closed/mostly closed.
Whilst the boiler seems to be working quite correctly there seems to be a system problem when its hot.
My deduction is that all the TRVs have closed and the room stat rad is almost closed as well.
Could you open the lockshield on that rad by ONE turn anticlockwise and check that the control valve on the other end is mostly open. Then repeat the warm start and see if its better?
Tony
The boiler does not restart unless the temperature across the heat exchanger is not too wide. No one seems to know what but perhaps about 10°. It then displays S53. If that temp diference does not reduce within the waiting time ( 10 min? ) the F23 will be displayed.
When the room stat turns off the boiler it continues to run the pump for a time set in d1. This circulates water round the radiators and helps to stabilise flow and return temperatures. It was 5 min and you increased it to 10 min. It might further reduce the incidence of S53 if you increase this further but there does seem to be a very poor flow rate round your heating circuit when the TRVs are closed/mostly closed.
Whilst the boiler seems to be working quite correctly there seems to be a system problem when its hot.
My deduction is that all the TRVs have closed and the room stat rad is almost closed as well.
Could you open the lockshield on that rad by ONE turn anticlockwise and check that the control valve on the other end is mostly open. Then repeat the warm start and see if its better?
Tony
A few answers to queries:
Yes, the installer definetely added inhibitor after refilling the system.
No, its not a microbore system.
Not sure if installer checked the ball/paddle.
Thanks
Mary Jane
Yes, the installer definetely added inhibitor after refilling the system.
No, its not a microbore system.
Not sure if installer checked the ball/paddle.
Thanks
Mary Jane
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