Why do Bosch make 2x different rechargeable battery types of same voltage 18 volts?

[spader]

I have been using Bosch for my hand tools such as drills, impact drivers etc, hence have a few Bosch batteries in blue colour (18V).
Now I was trying to get some Bosch garden tools such as Hedge trimmers, cordless chainsaws, grass strimmers etc, but they run under different type of Bosch batteries in green colour and chargers. (In same 18V)

What is the reasonings and logic behind their ideas of the 2x different type batteries, which makes me unable to use my exisitng blue coloured hand tools batteries.
Having to buy new green coloured batteries and chargers makes the Bosch garden tool a lot more expensive, and the situation is forcing me to look other makes of lower prices. This is something I couldn't understand on Bosch recharegable garden tools. Any thoughts?

 

[Mike13]

Are they both the same nominal Voltage?

 

[spader]

Are they both the same nominal Voltage?

Yes, both types are same 18V.

 

[big-all]

green diy blue proffesional
bosch and many others now share the same battery platform with festool and others suspect another change off tool to use

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Usual don't give a fig about the customer, in this crazy world the whole industry needs a shake up, make all batteries compatible throughout, as happened with mobile phone chargers, eventually.

 

[Fred Blogs]

It's all done to screw you the customer. Same as selling tools without batteries. I use Makita whose tools are bare bones. They then sell their branded batteries for £75 a throw and that's for the 3 amp ones. I buy chinese knock offs, 5 amps for £32 and sometimes that's for two batteries. I've not had any problems so far although the pros on here will scoff and say but they don't last as long etc etc etc blah blah blah. As I say I haven't had any problems and the only battery that I have had pack up was a Makita branded one.

 

[Mike13]

On the other side you have the designers looking at safely wrapping up the same types of cells as everyone else, but they each make a different decision about where to but the stiffening bits, and that will lead to a slightly different envelope.

The festool battery initiative is a good one, and I hope it spreads, but in the meantime I got about 6 different power tools, for garden and home, and some spare 20V & 40V batteries and two chargers for about the same as full price big name one tool, battery and charger. Then again, I am just doing diy, so if it breaks during the day I am not going to be out of pocket.
Tools about 20-40 each, 20V5Ah/40V2.5Ah batteries were £26 each, now £29 each. And no toting extension leads around the garden. I think that gave value for money. the 20V2Ah batteries were 13 each, now 15 each I think. (I went Ferrex, as they were the first to have a full set of stuff available on the same day)

Having used them quite a bit for the last two years I think a 12 V unit would have been good for putting kitchen units together, as it is easy to strip the threads on the chipboard and being smaller would get into corners better. but I have tools that work so would not NEED to buy another voltage set of batteries, nice to have but not essential enough.

 

[^woody^]

Go Ryobi! One battery whether you're DIYing or pro-building.

Battery tech is interesting and there was a shift a few years ago to denser cells which meant more power but lighter batteries. And there is now a new shift for slightly different format which is going to do the same again.

So, whilst pro users won't want to keep changing tools to fit new battery formats, its viable in the consumer market to bring out new tools using different batteries every few years.

 

[big-all]

It's all done to screw you the customer. Same as selling tools without batteries. I use Makita whose tools are bare bones. They then sell their branded batteries for £75 a throw and that's for the 3 amp ones. I buy chinese knock offs, 5 amps for £32 and sometimes that's for two batteries. I've not had any problems so far although the pros on here will scoff and say but they don't last as long etc etc etc blah blah blah. As I say I haven't had any problems and the only battery that I have had pack up was a Makita branded one.

Manufacturers are getting wise to generic batteries and it's on the way that tool and battery "shake hands" to work ....now will the generics overcome this and are new tools bought now reprogrammed to backdate the feature who knows ??

 

[Mike13]

Go Ryobi! One battery whether you're DIYing or pro-building.

Battery tech is interesting and there was a shift a few years ago to denser cells which meant more power but lighter batteries. And there is now a new shift for slightly different format which is going to do the same again.

So, whilst pro users won't want to keep changing tools to fit new battery formats, its viable in the consumer market to bring out new tools using different batteries every few years.

With batteries it is always a tradoff of internal resistance and capacity. the "40V" ferrex uses the same size batteries as the "20V" ferrex, both samsung cells, but the 20V one can deliver more current, but then has less capacity than the 40V pack.

 

[opps]

On the other side you have the designers looking at safely wrapping up the same types of cells as everyone else, but they each make a different decision about where to but the stiffening bits, and that will lead to a slightly different envelope.

The festool battery initiative is a good one, and I hope it spreads, but in the meantime I got about 6 different power tools, for garden and home, and some spare 20V & 40V batteries and two chargers for about the same as full price big name one tool, battery and charger. Then again, I am just doing diy, so if it breaks during the day I am not going to be out of pocket.
Tools about 20-40 each, 20V5Ah/40V2.5Ah batteries were £26 each, now £29 each. And no toting extension leads around the garden. I think that gave value for money. the 20V2Ah batteries were 13 each, now 15 each I think. (I went Ferrex, as they were the first to have a full set of stuff available on the same day)

Having used them quite a bit for the last two years I think a 12 V unit would have been good for putting kitchen units together, as it is easy to strip the threads on the chipboard and being smaller would get into corners better. but I have tools that work so would not NEED to buy another voltage set of batteries, nice to have but not essential enough.

I wasn't aware of Festool batteries being compatible with other brands.

Are you, possibly, thinking of CAS, the one battery alliance set up by Metabo and other (smaller German companies)?

The batteries for my Metabo drills will work with the likes of Steinell and Mafele ( I can't afford the latter).

@JobAndKnock has previously suggested that the only reason that CAS exists is because the smaller firms don't want to lock people in to proprietary batteries given that they only sell a limited number of cordless tools. I get the impression that he was suggesting that the likes of Dewalt and Makita sell such as wide range of products that they are happy to go with the battery lock in.

I have phrased the above pretty badly. Firms with a small range of battery based products have an incentive to work together, mega large firms have an incentive to be proprietary.

 

[opps]

Go Ryobi! One battery whether you're DIYing or pro-building.

The only time I used a Ryobi One- my stepson's green tongue and groove flooring... brand new battery, a new oscillating saw.

I tried to plunge cut, it kept stopping after about 15 seconds.

The next day, I used my corded Fein.

I wasn't impressed with Ryobi One, and I say that as someone that first used their (corded) products over 20 years ago (and was impressed with them- it was when they were blue).

Maybe it was a dodgy battery...

 

[Deleted member 174758]

...the whole industry needs a shake up, make all batteries compatible throughout, as happened with mobile phone chargers, eventually.

In your dreams. It didn't happen for cameras, did it? Maybe for DIY tools where minimal communication between the battery and the tool takes place, but it won't happen for pro tools where some very sophisticated control of battery temperature, power draw, security lockout, etc occurs. That means a battery is nothing like as simple as a power cord.

Also the big names are already moving to a 21700 size cell from the older 18650 cells. This is because whilst the 18650s we've used for nearly 20 years in cordless tools can produce up to about 800 watts of power, the newer 21700 cells can produce up to 1440 watts - or about 80% more power. The downside is that the 21700s are slightly longer than the 18650s, so they need a bigger battery pack. Against that many manufacturers are now producing higher voltage and higher amperage batteries which can drive much larger tools, e.g. deWalt 54 volt, Hikoki 36 volt, Makita 40 volt, Milwaukee 16 Amp 18 volt, etc not all of which are backeards compatible with earlier battery interfaces (e.g. Makita 40 volt). So your best hope is probably that smaller manufacturers will combine their battery platforms (e.g. the CAS Alliance in Germany) or agree to licence bigger players battery interface designs as some specialist tool manufacturers have done (e.g. Grayco sprayers which use deWalt XR 18 volt batteries, or Huskie pipe crimpers which use Milwaukee M18 batteries)

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I use Makita whose tools are bare bones. They then sell their branded batteries for £75 a throw and that's for the 3 amp ones

I don't know wherevyou are buying your batteries, but I have been buying genuine 18 volt 5 Amp Makita LXT batteries since 2016, and only at the very beginning did I ever pay more than £65 for a 5Ah battery. I currently have 12v9fvthem, the oldest being 5 years old

I've not had any problems so far although the pros on here will scoff and say but they don't last as long etc etc etc blah blah blah.

They really don't last as long in comparison to trade OEM batteries, partly because almost no snide batteries on the market have built in overheating protection in addition the casings generally aren't as robust as trade OEM batteries and the cells used in them are cheaper/lower grade ones, which also affects life span. For DIY use, however, they are perfectly OK providing you ensure that you you don't cook them (overheat them).

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Go Ryobi! One battery whether you're DIYing or pro-building.

You're a card, aren't you? Where is Ryobi's cordless collated drywall screw gun, then? Or their cordless pipe crimper? Or their cordless mitre saws? Or their cordless 9in grinders? Or their cordless heavy jack hammer? Ryobi are at best DIY/light trade. They aren't a serious contender for serious construction. You really need to get out more [/QUOTE]