Why do Bosch make 2x different rechargeable battery types of same voltage 18 volts?

[freddiemercurystwin]

In your dreams. It didn't happen for cameras, did it? Maybe for DIY tools where minimal communication between the battery and the tool takes place, but it won't happen for pro tools where some very sophisticated control of battery temperature, power draw, security lockout, etc occurs. That means a battery is nothing like as simple as a power cord.

..... If the powers to be told them what the parameters within which to operate were then the manufactures would simply make it work. .....

(Abuse removed)

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I wasn't aware of Festool batteries being compatible with other brands

Well, they aren't part of CAS, probably because that would mean climbing.in bed with rivals Mafell. Who knows?

@JobAndKnock has previously suggested that the only reason that CAS exists is because the smaller firms don't want to lock people in to proprietary batteries given that they only sell a limited number of cordless tools. I get the impression that he was suggesting that the likes of Dewalt and Makita sell such as wide range of products that they are happy to go with the battery lock in.

Did I? i don't recall. CAS is fundamentally using the already-developed Metabo interface. Metabo have long manufactured and supplied components to other firms (e.g. Lamello biscuit jointers used Metabo grinder motors and gearboxes for decades). Metabo have also had a long relationship with Starmix (industrial vacuum cleaners) and a number of the CAS members also sell rebadged Starmix vacuums (e.g. Mafell). Mafell, having at one time had a relationship with Festool (Festool sold a badged version of the Mafell 1/2in router as the OF2000 whilst Mafell sold a modified version of the Festool OF1000e router as their LO50), have bought-in their cordless batteries (and I suspect at least the motors and electronics) from Metabo for a very long time. What I am trying to show is that there is a lot of inter-relationship between differentbCAS members even without Metabo's battery technology

I certainly feel that if you are a smaller, specialist firm it might well make a lot of financial sense to buy in byour cordless battery technology from a bigger partner

Firms with a small range of battery based products have an incentive to work together, mega large firms have an incentive to be proprietary.

I completely agree with you there

 

[Deleted member 174758]

(Content edited out)

Yet more ignorant comments from a neo-luddite, or maybe some sort of techno-communist? Eithervway, ignorant. The "authorities"? What, the UK CA people? The British Standards institute? The US goverrnment? Or maybe you mean the EU? Pipe dreams which will never happen.

Whilst a single standard makes sense for basic DIY tools - at the upper (trade/industrial) end of the market where battery technologies and capacities have started to diverge markedly in recent years it would be very nearly impossible to implement. By the time you had a standard, battery technology would morecthan likely have made it obsolete

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

You keep telling yourself that boyo, keep charging your silly prices so you can buy your silly tools to justify your existence.

 

[^woody^]

You're a card, aren't you? Where is Ryobi's cordless collated drywall screw gun, then? Or their cordless pipe crimper? Or their cordless mitre saws? Or their cordless 9in grinders? Or their cordless heavy jack hammer? Ryobi are at best DIY/light trade. They aren't a serious contender for serious construction. You really need to get out more

LOL.

Thats like my Virgin cable service, and the old iPhone marketing hype. "Get Virgin media and you'll have 500 channels", "Get an iPhone and you'll have 5 bazillion apps". And that translates to 498 channels of crap for Virgin and 4.999999 bazillion apps that are of no use to me.

Who needs a cordless jack hammer? Not the OP, nor me. Who needs a cordless pipe crimper? Anyone who's not a plumber probably.

The point is, the OP complains of different batteries from the same manufacturer. I offered an alternative.

Now, Ryobi has all the tools to do me in my general building work, and all off one battery. Even lights to see with and vacuums to clean up with. And they earn me just the same amount of money as any fanboi gets.

I've just ordered a 2100 RPM and 95 Nm compact brushless drill from the states for £66. £66! That will drill the same holes as any comparable drill and it will do so for less and for just as long.

Go Ryobi!

 

[^woody^]

With batteries it is always a tradoff of internal resistance and capacity. the "40V" ferrex uses the same size batteries as the "20V" ferrex, both samsung cells, but the 20V one can deliver more current, but then has less capacity than the 40V pack.

For example, Ryobi have just released a new 18v 4 Ah battery that offers "3 times more runtime and 20% more power" than previous 18v 4Ah battery.

I don't really understand how that is possible when the batteries are rated the same.

 

[big-all]

LOL.

Thats like my Virgin cable service, and the old iPhone marketing hype. "Get Virgin media and you'll have 500 channels", "Get an iPhone and you'll have 5 bazillion apps". And that translates to 498 channels of crap for Virgin and 4.999999 bazillion apps that are of no use to me.

Who needs a cordless jack hammer? Not the OP, nor me. Who needs a cordless pipe crimper? Anyone who's not a plumber probably.

The point is, the OP complains of different batteries from the same manufacturer. I offered an alternative.

Now, Ryobi has all the tools to do me in my general building work, and all off one battery. Even lights to see with and vacuums to clean up with. And they earn me just the same amount of money as any fanboi gets.

I've just orde

Go Ryobi!

i am a bit daft with ryobi in the lighting department the fan department the sanding department and many others
about 6 fans about 8 lights and perhaps 6 sanding choices and dont mention p600 routers lol most off the other tools are more sensible one or twoo off ---- when i get get to in excess off 50 battery tools i will be out off control ---- ooo wait a minuit that happened a few years ago

 

[Mike13]

The moving on of battery technology will bite any standards for the envelope and mounting connection. Not so long ago everyone had NiCd batteries.
We see the same nonsense with the USB connections provided on faceplates now, how stupid is that. USB-C now provides a negotiated 5-12-20 Volts and up to 65 watts of power, but it is USB-1 or 2 that is provided on the faceplate.

 

[spader]

I am trying to reduce spening on buying more new tools. When I saw the Bosch long pole hedge trimmer bare was £100, but the same trimmer with the different green colour charger and battery as a kit came to £159, I didn't want to pay the difference. Because I have 5 blue coloured 18V Bosch batteries and 2x chargers for my drills and impact drivers. These are about 6 years old, but they all still work like new, but they won't work with the green Bosch hedge trimmer which uses different 18V green battery and charger

So I took out the old Bosch 14.4V hedge trimmer from the shed about 15 years old (the battery died long time ago), and bought a nameless 3rd party 14.4V battery for £15 from eBay. It seems working OK. This old hedge trimmer with 14.4V battery sounds weak and under powered, but it will do for cutting the newly sprouting green leaves on the hedges. The trimmer is also very light compared to my 600 Watts mains powered 70cm blade Bosch hedge trimmer.

 

[opps]

The moving on of battery technology will bite any standards for the envelope and mounting connection. Not so long ago everyone had NiCd batteries.
We see the same nonsense with the USB connections provided on faceplates now, how stupid is that. USB-C now provides a negotiated 5-12-20 Volts and up to 65 watts of power, but it is USB-1 or 2 that is provided on the faceplate.

I have seen socket faceplates with two USB-C sockets but I have no idea if they use PD (power delivery) standard, which supports up to 240w in the latest standard.

To be fair, given that very few USB-C cables support 240w, the face plates are probably rated at the lower wattage. Additionally, for 240w, you would need a massive back box.

A while ago, I made the mistake of buying a 45w HP USB-C laptop charger- it was only £25 inc delivery. I didn't realise that it doesn't support PD. If I plug it in to my Galaxy Note 20, it charges it at the slowest rate (not at fast charging, or super fast charging).

A couple of months ago, I purchased a 60w charger (with PD), I asked the shop staff for a 2m USB-C to USB-C cord. They had one, I asked them which wattage it was rated at, they told me that all USB-C is rated equally, I politely explained that they were incorrect . I checked the box, it was rated at 45w. The worrying part was that this was a pc/phone repair store.

 

[Mike13]

I have seen socket faceplates with two USB-C sockets but I have no idea if they use PD (power delivery) standard, which supports up to 240w in the latest standard.

To be fair, given that very few USB-C cables support 240w, the face plates are probably rated at the lower wattage. Additionally, for 240w, you would need a massive back box.

A while ago, I made the mistake of buying a 45w HP USB-C laptop charger- it was only £25 inc delivery. I didn't realise that it doesn't support PD. If I plug it in to my Galaxy Note 20, it charges it at the slowest rate (not at fast charging, or super fast charging).

A couple of months ago, I purchased a 60w charger (with PD), I asked the shop staff for a 2m USB-C to USB-C cord. They had one, I asked them which wattage it was rated at, they told me that all USB-C is rated equally, I politely explained that they were incorrect . I checked the box, it was rated at 45w. The worrying part was that this was a pc/phone repair store.

Well a usb-C can only get to the higher rates by negotiation, it must have been those magical chinese 45 watts, ie a fake unit.

It also must have been one of the big phone shop chains that think they can get people who understand these things and pay minimum wage.
yes, the continual uprating is a problem. Even "IR" (International Rectifier) does it big time declaring they can get 200 Watts out of a TO-220 package! I cannot see how those tiny connectors can safely deliver the volts and currents to get to 240Watts, demands an extreme volts per metre and or an extremely small number of micro-ohms for the connector fingers.
For a faceplate the customer would need to uprate and change the faceplate every 2-4 years, but domestic customers would not stand for that, so they end up paying extra for a socket that will be obsolete before too long. That was the main point about the futility of buying one of those faceplates with added usb, it is just a too fast moving target

 

[mrrusty]

As far as bosch pro goes, keep an eye out for deals. I bought a combi drill + 2x 5aH for £110 from screwfix recently. Didn't need the drill, but was cheaper than buying separate batteries

 

[Koolpc]

I really like my Bosch pro combi drill. Batteries are superb. Had it a fair few years now. Quite fancy an impact driver to pair with it so that i can use the same batteries. No clue what i should be looking for though....just a Bosch pro one?

 

[spader]

Screwfix were doing good deals on Bosch drill set this January. That's where I got my newer ones (still have the older ones from 2017).
It came with the combi drill, impact driver and 2x batteries in the hard platic casing. The batteries were only 2 aH ones (18V). I think it was £165 for the whole set. Felt it was a good deal at the time, but would have been better if the batteries were 5 aH ones. I have 3x other Bosch batteries 18V 4aH from the older Bosch drill set, and they all work with the new drill set fine. Still all work great.

But these batteries don't work with the green Bosch garden tools (18V), which is not great.