Why do plumbers rate Worcester Bosch when Which doesn't?

[jennymole]

Been researching and getting quotes for a new combi boiler and have a burning question...

Why do all the plumbers I've spoken to recommend Bosch Worcester combi boilers as the "rolls royce" of boilers when they consistently score fairly poorly in Which reports?

Who should I trust?

Please help they aren't cheap and I want to get this right.

 

[oilman]

Perhaps the margins are higher. Perhaps there are incentives for installers. Perhaps ................

 

[dextrous]

They don't recommend WB on this site. Broags or Vaillant are the ones most in favour at present from what I can see.

 

[kevplumb]

so ask yourself how many boilers do their writers fit and have to live with

and repair get spares for etc

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Im not aware of quite how Which? test boilers, but to me there's no better testers than the guys on here who work with boilers every day. They know which go wrong most often, which are difficult to repair, and get parts for, who offers best back up service etc. And then give their time on here for free to offer advice and guide people who are experiencing problems.

I know who's advice i'd rather trust....

 

[Agile]

Exactly!

Unless they have changed then Which have a simple and cheap "test" facility caled its members!

They send out a card with their magazines saying, if you would like to help with a survey on "boilers" then return the card.

The survey sample is flawed! When was a Which member living in a council house?

They are Which members who are above average income and intelligence. Specifically they are that kind of people who seriously research before buying an icecream to ensure its at just the right temperature, has a nice flavour and has a warning if it contains nuts!

Most Which members will have a maintenance agreement because thats what most of their members like.

The reality of the real world is that to judge the reliability of boilers you would need to be very careful and extend the survey until you had 10 of each model ( even Sime! ).

Thats always been the problem with Which that their members always get their cars serviced on the dot, visit the dentist every 6 months and dont go out to Bingo!

So the survey results are not typical of the average homeowner but of social groups A,B and C only!

We who repair boilers know different.

A couple of years ago, our local spares supplier was selling 10 new replacement PCBs for a popular boiler EVERY DAY!

Tony

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

I would actually be interested to know what came out as their 'Best Buy'. If the answer concurs with the general concensus of opinion on here then maybe i'll start to believe it.

Tony, I had to smile when I read your post! My father is extremely knowlegeable in his field, (IT), is a homeowner, and has subscribed to the magazine for many years, and I believe still does. Whilst he used to maintain he'd like a VW Passat (Best Buy at the time) he claimed he couldnt afford one. (Instead he has consistently purchased FIAT cars, most of which were slated by Which? in their day!) He also has a BG badged Glow Worm boiler, fitted (badly) and a maintenance contract on the system. Whilst I tried to point out the flaws (gaping ones!) in the installation he wouldnt listen.....

 

[Agile]

Baxi Duotec I gather!

Probably had one member with one for three years which has never faulted!

I was surprised that it was not a Vaillant they chose!

Tony

 

[jennymole]

I have a huge respect of the professional opinion of plumbers/engineers which is why I posed this question -but to be fair to Which:
- their tests are carried out by a registered gas fitter to assess ease of installation
- they test efficiency according to eurpoean standard tests (this found the Bosch Worcester to be Sedbuk B not the claimed A - along with a lot of other models)
- and they ran a durablity test that involved switching on the boiler 2,920 times to simulate a year of use
This report is far more thorough and objective than a satisfaction questionnaire by "middle class people".

And am I right in thinking that their top scoring boiler was a Baxi which also won CORGI "boiler of the year" last year voted by it's members. This could possibly suggest that Which isn't completely wrong.

Thanks for your replies so far.

 

[kevplumb]

And am I right in thinking that their top scoring boiler was a Baxi which also won CORGI "boiler of the year" last year voted by it's members. This could possibly suggest that Which isn't completely wrong.

 

[kevindgas]

we fit Vaillant, Alpha, Veissmann & Worcester

in the past we used a lot of ferroli, Ideal and Baxi/potterton

over the years ferroli and Baxi/pot have gone downhill big time in our experience.

never had a good inings with Saunia Duval/Glowworm. and their modern crates are just diabolical.

Worcester have been consistantly good with their CDi range and we get the odd diverter valve to change not much else.

Ideal again no real issues with the isar/icos/evo although many posters have bad experiences We have been lucky

given our experience Vaillant come top then Viessmann and Worcester equally as good as each other. it is really a question of how good is the installer and the cleansing of the system the boiler is fitted too.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

I think its fair to say what these guys on here dont know about boilers is really not worth knowing! Tony may question my knowlege on drains, but I wouldnt doubt his opinion on a boiler!

In fairness, a lot may come down to the quality of installation. Any boiler fitted to a improperly cleaned system can throw up problems. I have a Halstead conventional boiler, most seem to slate them, but its been plodding away here happily for last 4 years with no problems, supplying heating and hot water to a sometimes cold Victorian terraced property. My folks have a BG badged Glow Worm (conventional), no problems in last 4 years its been there.
Friends have an ancient Worcester 9.24, apart from new diverter valve and expansion vessel recharge has wanted for nothing in 12 years they've been in the property. Meanwhile, ive had a friend asking about a virtually brand new Ideal that hasn't been and just not worked... Luckily for him he was renting the property, I think it got to the stage where the engineer had a weekly appointment at his address!!!

 

[Agile]

-but to be fair to Which:

I have had Which from time to time in the past and I have examined what they have said about their tests. I was always very disapointed!

Analysing what they say, its very carefully worded to make it sound great, but the reality is that they just cannot afford to test anything as you seem to imagine they do.

You might also wonder about their statement:- One of the strange quirks of condensing boilers is that while in condensing mode, they can be more than 100% efficient – they achieve this because as well as using heat from the fuel they're burning at the time, they also reclaim heat from the flue gases to heat your water too.

If you are so hooked on believing what they say, then dont bother asking us, just go and buy yourself a Duotec ( which most on here will rate as as merely "mediocre". )

Tony

 

[gas4you]

CORGI awards are given away, allegedly, by whoever bungs them the biggest backhander

WB have lived on past reputation for far to long.

Awkward to fit, awkward to service, pigs to repair and only sell loads because of giveaways to installers, rather than being a good competitive product.

Wouldn't fit one. Period

 

[tonybhoy]

Customer service is the best in the business though and so is their Techline.

I would fit a CDi in my own home without question,very good boiler IMO.

Having said that I have had a Sabre 35 HE for the past three years and it's never skipped a beat before that a Vovera 24-96 R S E for twelve years and it too never missed a beat and I never even serviced it until I was moving out,bad move

Tony