wiring advice needed

now i am no spaky but i am a civil engineer and run construction sites and work with very big HV cables, i deal with central networks regular and see alot worse stuff than this that can kill

i know i have to tidy the wiring but at 9pm at night without the bigger jb i have no chance

i need to get the lights on to be used for 30 mins beforewe go to bed

the wiring will be done properly with the cables cut properly

i was just trying to get some advise to make sure i had wired it in the best possible way, but instead of advice people are nit picking even though it has been pointed out 15 times that the minor faults will be sorted

how would you wire this up to make it all work??
 
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Professional guys on here will not tell you something is ok if its not.Do not connect the circuit back up without earths connected.Take some time tomorrow to re-do properly, post a good picture and I'm sure everyone will welcome you with open arms ;)
 
i understand but i am trying to get the advice on the important stuff not the minor stuff, i know how to do that, i can do that

just seems that evryone is missing the point of what i am asking
 
Everyone gets your point, you just want to know if you did it the best possible way... and to that I'll say with a bigger junction box and some more effort it will be fine. The point that you are missing though is that you have made a very stupid and dangerous decision to leave earth conductors disconnected.

If by some great misfortune there was a fault tonight and one of your family died would you be happy telling their friends/family 'it's not my fault, I just wanted some lights working before I went to bed...'

If you can not do the 'minor stuff' right the first time then you shouldn't be doing it. And leaving CPC's disconnected is not 'minor' it is reckless. Don't start jobs that you can't finish safely.

Davy
 
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thanx it has now took over an hour to get ur advice

as i kept saying the picture was to check what i had done was OK, i had wired all nice and neat the first 3 times but the switched live threw me, i then kept trying till i got it working right, this is when the picture was taken incase i was given advice to change all the wiring again

it has not been left like this i have re-connected the simple circut and taken away the whole bathroom light as it is not in use, i just cannot understand that once the inital issue of the missing cables was orted people still kept on instead of offering the advice required sooner so i had time to change the wiring tonite

i understand all the crap regulations there are, my old man is a corgi registered domestic and industrial gas engineer, one of the best workiing for our city council, but he is not allowed to service my boiler because they hold his certificate, he could not even fit his own boiler legally- this is just a farce
 
Dale, your grasp of electrical installation practice is as good as your grasp of English.

You don't know what you're doing, you don't understand the regulations that govern what you are trying to do and neither does your dad. Please stop making excuses and pay a professional to get it right.
 
A rough copy from the wiki, summing up the laws regarding DIY electrics.

DIY Electrical work and the law
original by Ban all Sheds

On January 1st 2005 legislation came into effect which brought electrical work in dwellings under the Building Regulations, and made it a controlled service. This amendment to the Building Regulations, known as “Part P”, imposes safety requirements, and also classifies electrical installation work into two basic categories, notifiable and non-notifiable.

Essentially the distinction is between major work, or work in what are deemed high-risk areas such as kitchens, bathrooms and gardens, and minor work such as replacing switches or adding sockets to existing circuits. (NB to those with a knowledge of the IEE Wiring Regulations, the term “minor work” is used here in its generic sense rather than the meaning defined in the Wiring Regs.)

A very important and fundamental point to note is that DIY electrical work has not been outlawed. It has been brought within the remit of the Building Regulations and cannot be carried out as freely as it was before, and in many cases cannot be carried out without involving your local council, but you may still DIY.

Major work is classed as notifiable, i.e. it must be notified to your Local Authority’s Building Control department (LABC). How this happens depends on who does it.

If the work is carried out by an electrician who is registered with one of the organisations who administer self-certification schemes, (sometimes referred to as “Competent Person” schemes) they carry out the work and report the details to their scheme organiser, who then notify the appropriate LABC that the work has taken place, and that it has been certified by the person who carried it out as being in compliance with the Building Regulations. You may be familiar with this method of operation if you have ever had windows replaced by a FENSA member.

If the work is carried out by someone who is not registered with one of the schemes, be they an electrician or another type of tradesman (e.g. kitchen fitter) who has chosen not to register, or a DIYer, then it must be notified to LABC in advance in the same way that any building work which requires their involvement is notified in advance. And just like when you are building an extension, or converting a loft, etc, there is a fee payable to LABC to cover their activities related to checking compliance with the Building Regulations. (But see “LABC Issues” below regarding this).

Another important point to note is that apart from a Building Inspector, nobody can certify someone else’s work as being compliant with the Building Regulations. Unless arranged by or in cooperation with LABC, a 3rd party electrical inspection is of no value in terms of complying with the law.

The full text of the legislation can be found here: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2004/20043210.htm amended by the 2006 SI here: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2006/20060652.htm . It is worth making the effort to read and understand them, because there is a lot of misinformation on the Internet, some of it put out by organisations with a vested interest in pretending that DIY work is illegal, some of it by LABCs who have either misunderstood the legislation, or who are also attempting to mislead the public in order to reduce the amount of work notified to them by non-self-certifying people, some of it, surprisingly, by the DCLG themselves (The Office of the Deputy Prime Minister, predecessor to the Department for Communities and Local Government, were responsible for the legislation), and much of it on electrical advice and discussion fora like this one.

At the time of writing (April 2006), the following work was classed as not needing notification to LABC:

1. Work consisting of -

(a) replacing any fixed electrical equipment which does
not include the provision of—

(i) any new fixed cabling; or

(ii) a consumer unit;

(b) replacing a damaged cable for a single circuit only;

(c) re-fixing or replacing enclosures of existing
installation components, where the circuit
protective measures are unaffected;

(d) providing mechanical protection to an existing
fixed installation, where the circuit protective
measures and current carrying capacity of
conductors are unaffected by the increased thermal
insulation.

(e) installing or upgrading main or supplementary
equipotential bonding;

(f) in heating or cooling systems -


(i) replacing control devices that utilise existing fixed
control wiring or pneumatic pipes;

(ii) replacing a distribution system output device;

(iii) providing a valve or a pump;

(iv) providing a damper or a fan;


(g) in hot water service systems, providing a valve or a pump;

(h) replacing an external door (where the door together
with its frame has not more than 50% of its internal
face area glazed);

(i) in existing buildings other than dwellings, providing
fixed internal lighting where no more than 100m² of
the floor area of the building is to be served by the
lighting.


2. Work which -

(a) is not in a kitchen, or a special location,

(b) does not involve work on a special installation, and

(c) consists of -


(i) adding light fittings and switches to an
existing circuit or

(ii) adding socket outlets and fused spurs to an
existing ring or radial circuit.


3. Work on -

(a) telephone wiring or extra-low voltage wiring for the
purposes of communications, information technology,
signalling, control and similar purposes, where the
wiring is not in a special location;

(b) equipment associated with the wiring referred to in
sub-paragraph (a).

(c) pre-fabricated equipment sets and associated flexible
leads with integral plug and socket connections.


4. For the purposes of this Schedule -

"kitchen" means a room or part of a room which contains a
sink and food preparation facilities;

"special installation" means an electric floor or ceiling
heating system, an outdoor lighting or electric power
installation, an electricity generator, or an extra-low
voltage lighting system which is not a pre-assembled
lighting set bearing the CE marking referred to in
regulation 9 of the Electrical Equipment (Safety)
Regulations 1994; and

"special location" means a location within the limits of
the relevant zones specified for a bath, a shower, a
swimming or paddling pool or a hot air sauna in the
Wiring Regulations, sixteenth edition, published by the
Institution of Electrical Engineers and the British
Standards Institution as BS 7671: 2001 and incorporating
amendments 1 and 2.
Like any law, things can change, and you are urged to ensure that you make yourself familiar with the law as it stands now, not necessarily as it was when this document was written.

The starting point on the DCLG website for information related to Building Regulations is http://www.communities.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1130474 and a list of the relevant legislation can be found at http://www.communities.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1130483 .

It is in the nature of the Internet for sites to change, and it may well be that today, when you are reading this, the links above no longer work, and you will have to search for the pages you want.

Useful Information

On the DCLG website there are a number of “Approved Documents” ( http://www.communities.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1501258 ). These are not definitions of the law, nor do they tell you what you must, or must not, do. Instead they give guidance on ways in which the law can be satisfied. They do point out that you are not obliged to adopt any solution contained in them if you prefer to meet the requirements in another way, but that said they are useful as they contain common sense advice and often there is no good reason not to adopt the solutions they contain.

Approved Document P can be found here: http://www.communities.gov.uk/pub/3...ricalsafetydwellings2006edition_id1164323.pdf

Technical Requirements

The technical requirements laid down by Part P are remarkably simple. They are:

P1 Reasonable provision shall be made in the design and installation of electrical installations in order to protect persons operating, maintaining or altering the installations from fire or injury.

It is worth noting however that they apply to all work, not just notifiable work, no matter who does it. So a DIYer adding a socket or a fused spur to a ring final circuit must work to the same technical standards as a registered electrician doing a complete rewire.

The biggest practical issue that arises is testing. To carry out testing of electrical circuits requires expertise and equipment, neither of which are likely to possessed by the average DIYer. So although Part P allows a DIYer to replace an entire circuit cable if it is damaged, without notification, it is arguable that he could not be sure that he had done it properly unless he carried out a series of tests on it, something he would probably be unable to do.

The IEE Wiring Regulations, aka BS 7671

Surprisingly, perhaps, Part P does not alter the status of the Wiring Regulations. They are still non-statutory, and there is still no legal requirement to adhere to them in domestic installations. This is a source of great discomfort to many electricians, and some of them will jump through hoops to try and prove that they are mandatory, but the fact remains that they are not.

HOWEVER, adherence to them is a very good way of ensuring that you meet the technical requirements of Part P, and you would need a very good reason, and a very good understanding of what you were doing, to decide to not adhere to them.

Their status in civil law and, in particular, the law relating to actions for negligence relating to work carried out may, in many ways, be considered to be the same as that of the Highway Code to Road Traffic Law. Whilst non-adherence to the wiring regulations, and the Highway Code, does not, in itself, constitute an offence, in a claim for damages for negligence relating to work that was not in accordance with the wiring regulations, that same non-adherence will almost always give rise to a presumption that the work was carried out negligently. This would reverse the burden of proof requiring the defendant to adduce evidence to rebut that presumption rather than requiring the claimant to adduce evidence to show that the work was carried out negligently. The law would then require the defendant to show that it was reasonable, in all the circumstances of the case, to have departed from the regs; that a cohort of professional electricians and electrical engineers would consider the departure justified; and that such a departure was not a material cause of the damage complained of. This might well prove such an onerous burden, it could be argued a defence to a claim in such circumstances would, almost never, be succesful.

LABC Issues

As mentioned above, some LABCs are spreading misinformation, either by accident or design, about the status and acceptability of electrical work done by DIYers or other non-registered people.

These include:

1) Stating that such persons simply cannot carry out notifiable work, and that it must be done by registered electricians. The legislation referenced above, Statutory Instrument 2004 No. 3210 The Building (Amendment) (No.3) Regulations 2004 makes it quite clear that this is not the case. LABCs are not allowed to refuse to process Building Notices submitted by non-registered people.

2) Stating that work carried out by a non-registered person must be inspected and tested by someone who is registered, or who they regard as qualified. Again, there is no mention of this requirement in the statutory instrument.

Recently the DCLG issued a circular to local authorities making it absolutely clear that they are not allowed to do this:

http://www.communities.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1131042

Additionally, the new Approved Document P now explicitly says

1.26 The building control body may choose to carry out the inspection and testing itself, or to contract out some or all of the work to a specialist body which will then carry out the work on its behalf. Building control bodies will carry out the necessary inspection and testing at their expense, not at the householders’ expense.

Unfortunately, many LABCs have been simply ignoring what the DCLG say, and persisting with their policy of requiring DIYers or other non-registered people to hire someone to inspect and test the work. The DCLG’s position on this appears to be that if you are being told this by your LABC you should take them to court.

It will be interesting to see if LABCs change their behaviour given what the Approved Document now says…

3) Attempting to impose extra charges to cover the inspection and testing of work done by a non-registered person. An LABC may well elect to subcontract inspection and testing if they do not have the capacity to do it themselves, but they are not allowed to charge extra because of this – the cost to them of subcontracting must be borne by them

Individual local authorities co-ordinate their services regionally and nationally (and provide a range of national approval schemes) via LABC Services. ( http://www.labc-services.co.uk ).

I recently posed LABC services the following question:

“My local Building Control dept has told me that because of staffing problems they are unable to inspect some building work, and will have to sub-contract it, and that I will therefore have to pay this cost on top of their fees. Are they allowed to do this?”

Their reply was:

“Building Regulation fees are set to a scale that embraces the whole scope of what may be necessary in respect of checking and approving the plans and inspecting the work. The input necessary can vary according to the circumstances of a specific scheme, but the fees are not variable due to this feature. The local authority has a legal duty to carry out the Building Regulation function to a proper degree. This can also vary in extent according to the demands of any scheme and considerable discretion rests with the authority. However they are responsible to give a proper service within the fee and cannot charge extra for the reason you mention. Indeed if they failed to inspect yet still charged you might have a case for a refund.”
 

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