wiring for a boiler and not enough kitchen sockets.

[thatbloke]

Hi guys , i am in the middle of restoring an old cottage and i have been putting off the electrics for as long as i can but noiw i need to address some issues. ive got a blank fuse on my consumer unit and no wiring for my boiler that is being installed friday. is this something that can be done easily? the boiler is gas. i have got plug sockets coming from a spur but i am not sure if its permissible to plug a boiler in in this way. the cottage did have a very old electric boiler and there is a fuse and wiring for this but i dont think it would be a good idea to use this for a modern boiler.

also , ive only got two double sockets in the kitchen , i need a few more , can the ring main be extended to another two sockets easily?

any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[holmslaw]

..

 

[thatbloke]

yes , its a central heating / dhw boiler ,i would like power to come from the main cu rather than say a plug socket etc , is this an easy thing to do? the fcu and connection to the boiler i am quite confident with , is connection to the cu a difficult task?

 

[bongos]

There are several ways to sort this.

You could put the boiler on it's own 6A MCB with a 1.5mm² t+e supply.

If you require extra sockets you could run a radial circuit to your new sockets and connect the boiler to the radial via a FCU with a 3A fuse. Use either 4mm² t+e protected by a 32A MCB or 2.5mm² t+e protected by a 16A MCB, dependant on how many sockets you require.

Or you could install a new ring for the kitchen...

Bear in mind that running a new circuit from the CU and all electrical work in kitchens is notifiable to your LABC before starting the work. Have a look here for more info.

 

[thatbloke]

i think its best to put the boiler on its own dedicated supply , its not difficult as i have no ceilings or plaster etc so i am at the first fix stage anyway.

i am having trouble understanding my plug socket wiring though , i think it might be a radial circuit?
i have only two sets of twin sockets coming from the CU , one run of cable to the first set then another run of cable from that to the last set of sockets , no return cable.

the CU states it is 16th edition 1991. it is currently split into two sections , sockets on one side and water heater , lights and cooker on the other. all the sockets side is protected by an RCD but the other side of the CU isnt.

The water heater on the unprotected side of the CU is disconnected but there is still a cable from the CU to the old switch , the cable from switch to water heater has been removed. On the CU the switch for the water heater is blue. Can this be used to run the boiler?

Also on the unprotected side of the CU there is a redundant yellow switch. Both lighting circuits are on white switches.

on the other side of the CU there are 4 switches , two yellow and two red , the kitchen sockets are running from a yellow switch , no other sockets in the house are controlled by this switch. the other yellow switch runs two sockets in the extension but used to run the fuse box in the shed (this has been disconnected at a junction box) and the two red switches control left and right sides of the house.

does this all sound ok to you guys? would it be safe to assume i have radial circuits throughout the house or would the red switches be ring mains? is it possible to add two more double sockets to the two sockets present in the kitchen?

sorry for all the questions but i would like to try and understand what i am dealing with so i can make decisions about any wiring changes i need to make in the house.

these are the only sockets in the kitchen , about 1.5 meter run from here to the CU.

the black tape is covering the switch for the cooker to stop people from switching it on , not ideal but as i found it.

 

[bongos]

Although the second pic looks like those sockets are on a radial circuit, they could be spurred from a ring final circuit.

What size MCB are they protected by? Can you open the front cover of the CU and see how many cable terminate in the MCB's. This will at least give you an idea of whether these circuits are ring/radial but the only way to be sure is to start testing...

Might be worth employing an electrician and discussing if you can do some of the donkey work for them. Especially as the work would be notifiable anyway.

 

[thatbloke]

the MCB is a 20 amp one for the two sockets in the kitchen , same for the one next to it that supplied the shed but now supplies one double socket in the new extension.
next to these are two 32 amp MCB's that supply left and right hand sides of the house respectively , both ground and first floors.

the two sockets in the pic are wired directly into the back of the CU and are on their own 20 amp MCB.

would it be possible to have both radial and ring on the same CU?

ive just noticed both the lighting circuits are only protected by 6 amp MCB's is 6 amps enough?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

would it be possible to have both radial and ring on the same CU?

Yup. Even if all your socket circuits were rings they'd be the only ones - lights, cooker, shower etc will be radials.

ive just noticed both the lighting circuits are only protected by 6 amp MCB's is 6 amps enough?

If it isn't you should be ashamed of yourself. That's nearly 1400W of lighting per circuit.

 

[thatbloke]

thanks guys , much appreciated advice.
i have one question though , i believe that works in a kitchen need to be passed by BC? so if i were to add sockets and wiring to the kitchen area it would be notifiable and i would need to get a building inspector down to have a look before any works commenced yes?

as i read it some of the works that are not notifiable are,

2. Work which -

(a) is not in a kitchen, or a special location,

(b) does not involve work on a special installation, and

(c) consists of -


(i) adding light fittings and switches to an
existing circuit or

(ii) adding socket outlets and fused spurs to an
existing ring or radial circuit.

then i read ,

4. For the purposes of this Schedule -

"kitchen" means a room or part of a room which contains a
sink and food preparation facilities;



now , my kitchen , or what used to be the kitchen is now just one big empty room , no sink , units , nothing except a cement mixer and some tools etc. so , under these circumstances is it still classed as a 'kitchen'?
it will probably be a kitchen again at some point.

 

[flameport]

The extra sockets for the kitchen are notifiable work. So is the boiler supply (as it would be a new circuit).

 

[thatbloke]

but technically it cannot be classed as a kitchen , can it?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Good luck arguing that one with LABC.

 

[bongos]

now , my kitchen , or what used to be the kitchen is now just one big empty room , no sink , units , nothing except a cement mixer and some tools etc. so , under these circumstances is it still classed as a 'kitchen'?
it will probably be a kitchen again at some point.

Even if you did successfully argue this (i'm not sure how you could), you will have to notify the new circuit for the boiler anyway...

 

[thatbloke]

so there is just one charge for both jobs? i thought i would be charged individually?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Not if you apply for approval for a single project, e.g. "kitchen refurbishment".