Kitchen wiring: Ring, spur & fused connections

[nettie2006]

My kitchen is an old victorian one, units both sides access straight down the middle.

I have a double socket on the window side and a double socket on the wall side. Also on the wall side is a switched fused spur for the combi-boiler and timer unit. The house has one 32A MCB sockets circuit.

There is also a separate CCU with socket from which I am removing the socket outlet.

I need to provide power to

1/ A washing machine currently on a 13A into one of the sockets, which I plan on putting on a fused spur.

2/ A fridge freezer currently on a 13A into one of the sockets, which I plan on putting on a fused spur.

3/ An electric oven, new install (2.8kW), which I plan on putting on a fused spur.

4/ A cooker hood, new install (120W), which I plan on putting on a fused spur.

I intend to retain the two double sockets.

I was intending to break into the ring main and wire from socket to fused spur etc. maintaining all accessories in the ring circuit.
Unfortunately, the window socket seems to be a spur. As the wall socket has only two wires in it, I am guessing it is also a spur.

Under the circumstances, if the rest of the socket circuit is a ring, is it acceptable to make one long spur with the above items for the kitchen?

I could trace all the wiring but will have to dismantle quite a lot of stuff.
The wiring was apparrently done to 16th edition.

 

[Steve]

You need a new ring main. No doubt about it. No kitchen is well-equipped with TWO SOCKETS!!!

It is NOT acceptable to wire all these FCUs as one long spur chain. You could have one long FUSED spur chain, but you would then be limited to 13A for the whole lot, which is not practical in a kitchen with high-load appliances like these.

New ring main.

 

[JohnD]

And the oven mustn't be on the ring, it needs its own radial.

Some people say a kitchen should have it's own ring, not a bad idea because a kettle, toaster, tumbledrier, washing machine and dishwasher all have heating elements and so use a lot of power. There is a slight advantage to having the freezer on a separate circuit so you don't lose all your fozen food if you have a fault; I only did it myself because I had an unused radial from a spare cooker outlet (my builders very thoughtfully put one on easch side of the kitchen).

When I did my previous kitchen, I put a switched spur every 60cm above the worksurface, feeding an unswitched socket below. That provides for a fridge, dishwasher or other appliance whereever you decide to put it (you don't need 2 switches for one socket, and you don't need a FCU as there's a fuse in the plug). Also socket outlets all along the wall above the worktop. And a FCU for the cooker hood and the boiler. Doing it this way you can run the ring in the ring at 900mm height instead of dropping every outlet down from the ceiling or up from the floor. It is more convenient to use plug and socket for appliances so you can easily unplug them for maintenance or replacement.

These day's, of course, you need a proper electrician to work on a kitchen. But I intend to use a similar approach when I refurbish my workroom.

You can get compartmented trunking to do this which is neat and easy to fit if you are paying for an electrician's time, though quite expensive on parts.

 

[nettie2006]

You need a new ring main. No doubt about it. No kitchen is well-equipped with TWO SOCKETS!!!

A whole 4 sockets actually

It is NOT acceptable to wire all these FCUs as one long spur chain.

The answer I needed.

And the oven mustn't be on the ring, it needs its own radial.

Other people on this site have said that it was not needed for the wattage and could plug in the ring main (when I sort it), drawing 12A at 240V & 13A worst case supply.

When I did my previous kitchen, I put a switched spur every 60cm above the worksurface, feeding an unswitched socket below. That provides for a fridge, dishwasher or other appliance whereever you decide to put it (you don't need 2 switches for one socket, and you don't need a FCU as there's a fuse in the plug).

Good idea on the switches with unswitched sockets. Personally I'd only need three.
Not only is there no room for other items but I only use the cooker, hob & fan for visitors food! If I sell it will not have to be to those who need a dishwasher, tumble dryer, double oven, industrial microwave with toaster attachment, wine cooler & plasma TV in their kitchen.

You can get compartmented trunking to do this which is neat and easy to fit if you are paying for an electrician's time, though quite expensive on parts.

Yes, dado et al trunking is available. Not something I antcipate having to do. Not only expensive though, large and ugly!


RIGHT,

Seems like the next job is to find out where the kitchen spur comes from, pull back some cable with draw wires and put the kitchen into rather than onto the ring main. There are only 10 sockets upstairs with another 17 (inc. the kitchen) downstairs so it shouldn't take too long, or be tooo expensive, sigh (better touch up the guys I work with who still have their tickets.)

 

[Plumbfit]

A radial circuit is not required for this oven, if this was the case every house with a quick boil kettle (3kw+) would need an extra radial circuit for their kettle!

 

[nettie2006]

Thanks. I've never looked at the power for a kettle. Another thing I don't use very often.
Most electrical goods in my house are between 10-400W
Electric bill about £7 a month, just don't ask about the gas bill!

 

[breezer]

ask about the gas bill!

i bet you have

these

i was quite surprised how pupular gas lighting still is

 

[JohnD]

A radial circuit is not required for this oven, if this was the case every house with a quick boil kettle (3kw+) would need an extra radial circuit for their kettle!

Steady on, I thought we were talking about an electric cooker here. Obviously mistaken.

 

[nettie2006]

Nope
Just lots of these

and a propensity for walking around in the dark!

JohnD
The cooker is a separate oven and hob. The hob takes up all the power available from the cooker cct and I have removed the socket on the cooker unit as well. Sorry for any confusion.

Off to find that fellow Frodo and unlock the mysteries of the 'Ring'

 

[JohnD]

I only use the cooker, hob & fan for visitors food!

and a propensity for walking around in the dark!

A single man, then?

 

[nettie2006]

A single man, then?

One out of two!

 

[JohnD]

A single man, then?

One out of two!

Single woman.

 

[nettie2006]

A single man, then?

One out of two!

Single woman.

Pleading the fifth

BTW, I think the previous owner was a Tottenham fan. Still trying to find the One Ring