Working with this bloke

[Sparklms]

And he reckons hes a fully qualified spark, now his work isnt bad but its not good either he likes to rush which inturn causes mistakes (ie other week i was testing a board after installing a new ringmain and got no cont on lives, split the ring and 2 sockets in found hed tightened the terminal on only one of the lives leaving other live in metal backbox - Not touching so not causing a fault)
Anyhow im looking at going on the books for the current firm im working for and they already have copies of all my certs ect but have nothing from this bloke,he reckons he cant get hold of his certs for whatever reason.
My question is how would one get all past certs ect if you lost them? Bare in mind the bloke reckons hes been qualified for 25 year.

 

[OwainDIYer]

If his certificates are 25 years old then he might not even have 15th Edition as 14th Edition was used up to 1984, so he can go and get requalified.

Certificating bodies should keep records and be able to supply replacement copies or a certificated statements of results indefinately.

 

[electronicsuk]

One would assume C&G would hold details of those who have achieved one of their qualifications, although that's irrelevant, as the onus is surely on this chap to prove his competence.

Mind you, after nearly a year I still haven't received the certificate for my 2382, and I've been chasing them about it for a while.

 

[Sparklms]

This is why i think he isnt qualified and just a charlaton (sp?).Yes he can wire but you can teach a monkey to wire.Its just when it comes to even basic stuff like calc amperes from wattage he hasnt got the foggiest.Im only 21 hes double my age and i know far more than him yet every other spark ive worked with whos been much older have always been knowledgable.

 

[conny]

Sounds like a 'sparkies' mate to me. Been 'encouraged' by a few sparks to 'have a go' and now knows it all.
Met a few of them over the years.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Anyhow im looking at going on the books for the current firm im working for.

Will you be in any way associated with any cock-ups this guy makes?

If not then it'd probably not be wise to start criticising him as soon as you join, but if you're going to collect crap when he screws up then you'll need to find a judicious way to put some distance between him and you.

Pay close attention to the relationships between him and the other "older but knowledgeable guys" - you might find someone to confide in.

 

[vsynth]

I do know an electrical apprentice who failed his final exams...doesn't stop him working as a spark to this day over 20 years later

Also know a mechanic who waffled his way into a job as an electrician at a large car plant...more often than not companies just don't check your certs...this guy is on £40K+ a year, that's more than I earn and I am qualified!

Usually at any job interview I have to force feed my certs to the interviewer who then glances briefly at them, not seeming to know what the hell C&G part 3 even means let alone is it an electrical cert or one for baking cakes

I think I'll go bluff my way as a brain surgeon, good money I hear

 

[dingbat]

I think I'll go bluff my way as a brain surgeon...

Well, it ain't exactly rocket science, is it?

 

[securespark]

as 14th Edition was used up to 1984

1981.

1984 was when the second amendments were incorporated into the 15th Edition, yellow cover.

 

[OwainDIYer]

as 14th Edition was used up to 1984

1981.

1984 was when the second amendments were incorporated into the 15th Edition, yellow cover.

Yet, despite approval for the 15th Edition in 1982, the relevant Secretaries of State saw no difficulty in concurrent operation of the 14th and 15th Editions for a transitional period, until the end of 1984. source.

 

[securespark]

I stand corrected.

However, I cannot remember any pro's using the 14th beyond the end of 1981.

 

[ericmark]

There is no need to have any paper qualification other than apprenticeship deeds to show you are an electrician. You could have either not gone to college or failed them all.

I did my apprenticeship with local authority and like many the deeds just say I have served an apprenticeship as an engineering craftsman and bridge builder and don't say if I was a mechanic or electrician and to now get details from council as to what my apprenticeship covered would be hard.

I had a brief case stolen from my car while returning from an interview and although I got some paperwork back as found in hedge I also lost some. I tried to get replacement certificates back in 1980 when this happened and I was quoted at £25 per certificate back then so never did get replacements.

Some certificates back then were issued by the college not a central exam board and I could not get then replaced. I know people with 16th Edition exam certs issued by college not city & guilds. My school leaving certificate the FCE (Flintshire Certificate of Education) which I took at 16 I could not get replaced council no longer had any records this again back in 1980.

So yes an electrician could have no paperwork to prove he is qualified and have no way to get it. Although in domestic most electricians will have taken C&G2381 or C&G2382 in industry it is common for firms not to send people for the training and exam and many feel training is down to their firm to provide.

Ability of workers is a problem. My charge hand on one job was an ex house basher proud of having 16th Edition and at start of job most the work was single phase connecting up cabins etc. And he could do that without a problem. However as the job progressed our work moved over to fault finding on cranes, batching plants, and other complex three phase plant. And he didn't have a clue. Last in first out mean he was one of the last sparks on site as well and the foreman had a real problem. By that time I had moved companies but still on site. If the foreman tried to sack him as being incompetent he would be asked the question why had the guy been employed for last 4 years without him being aware of this. So charge hand was given mates jobs and all the real electric work was done by foreman.

To get rid he would have needed to have kept records of all he did wrong. Now although we now that to taken 8 hours and he had still not realised the compressor was blowing fuses because the non return valve was allowing pressure back into the cylinder so overloading motor in star is OTT. You try and prove that! After all although blowing fuses the fault was mechanical. So very hard to prove to labour department that he can't do his job.

 

[Sparklms]

Anyhow im looking at going on the books for the current firm im working for.

Will you be in any way associated with any cock-ups this guy makes?

If not then it'd probably not be wise to start criticising him as soon as you join, but if you're going to collect crap when he screws up then you'll need to find a judicious way to put some distance between him and you.

Pay close attention to the relationships between him and the other "older but knowledgeable guys" - you might find someone to confide in.

We work on every single job together and i sign all test sheets and other paperwork off as he "cant find" his certs.I am now certain this guy is not an electrician as today i caught him crimping a lug to a main gas bond using his snips..

Needless to say i was gobsmacked and asked what he was doing, his reply " this is how they taught me in college"..

The guy also seems to think speed=quality when in actual fact in this scenario speed=mistakes/general roughness.

 

[electronicsuk]

We work on every single job together and i sign all test sheets and other paperwork off as he "cant find" his certs.I am now certain this guy is not an electrician as today i caught him crimping a lug to a main gas bond using his snips..

Needless to say i was gobsmacked and asked what he was doing, his reply " this is how they taught me in college"..

The guy also seems to think speed=quality when in actual fact in this scenario speed=mistakes/general roughness.

Well I hope you're checking all his work thoroughly before lending your name to it! I appreciate you may not want to rub up your colleague the wrong way, but it's pretty serious for you if he's made a mistake that leads to someone getting hurt (or worse), and you've signed the certs.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

And basically until you tell the firm you'll be covering up for him, which is one thing if you're subbing, as you can always say "he works for you, it's not really my business", but when he's a fellow employee...

What happens if (or when?) he's rumbled and they find out you knew all along?

How many other electricians are there in the firm? Does nobody else realise?