would you pay for brickwork with a finish like this??

[kinkyken]

Hi,

just wondering if anyone would be paying all the money for a job if it was left "finished" like this?
Brickie insists its ok, bodged up with mortar, angled bricks not cut or anywhere near the run if the eaves, again, bodged up with mortar...

I am trying to be fair, and have offered to pay some of the money but deducted £200 for removing the "cut" bricks and bricks round the rafters and replacing the lot myself. Its probably going to cost me more than that including time, bricks and mortar! the 200 also includes redoing the cut bricks on the open eaves section at the front of my house which is not as bad, but still well out of line after the second attempt (1st attempt he didnt cut any bricks but instead filled up angles with mortar)

open eaves front section.. no where near straight....or am i being too picky...even the wife thinks its a bloody mess!?!

 

[holmslaw]

Although some of that brick work is unacceptable you seem to have a peculiar design.

In a couple of places the rafters are not parallel to the walls so it is difficult to neatly finish the run of brickwork due to the wall thickness diminishing to nothing. But use of a brick saw or grinder would have produced a neater finish.

You should also consider that some of the rough areas are structurally sound and will not be visible when the job is finished.

 

[joe-90]

Most of it looks OK. If they'd cut the bricks with a 9 inch grinder rather than a club hammer there wouldn't be a problem.

Was he a time served Brit tradesman? If he was a foreigner it serves you right.

 

[noseall]

Gable cut-ups that are not seen are often finished like this. There is no point paying a bricklayer for machine cut bricks that are not seen.

I have never, ever removed the roof covering and revealed grinder cut bricks on a hidden gable cut up.

A gable cut-up that is seen - yes.

One that is hidden by barge and soffit - no.

Never.

 

[kinkyken]

the majority of the brickwork is ok, and I have agreed to pay for it its just the final finish at the top of the wall, the bricks are no where near the rafters coming through the wall so I am going to do it again myself, but dont think I should have to pay for the bodge up at the top. The mortar is actually falling out and loose as are many of the final top bricks!
The last picture of the front eaves is actually open and will be seen!

NO IT WASNT A FOREIGNER - alledgedly a time served brickie and as he was on day rate not cheap at that!

 

[kinkyken]

Gable cut-ups that are not seen are often finished like this. There is no point paying a bricklayer for machine cut bricks that are not seen.

I have never, ever removed the roof covering and revealed grinder cut bricks on a hidden gable cut up.

A gable cut-up that is seen - yes.

One that is hidden by barge and soffit - no.

Never.

if you look you will also see that the bad brickwork and mortar bodge is actually lower than any soffit would hide unless its massive and out of proportion.
Building inspector noticed that the rafters coming through the wall were sitting on approx 2 inches or more of mortar with nearly a full bricks worth of mortar round the sides in places. Some bricks are actually falling off and loose. There are also bricks cut at an angle and built in with further bricks built over them - on the front and back walls. the more I look at it the more I notice stuff. If it was clean and tidy and all structurally sound and not falling off or anywhere near to the angle of the top of the wall I wouldnt be complaining about paying for it!

 

[kinkyken]

Although some of that brick work is unacceptable you seem to have a peculiar design.

In a couple of places the rafters are not parallel to the walls so it is difficult to neatly finish the run of brickwork due to the wall thickness diminishing to nothing. But use of a brick saw or grinder would have produced a neater finish.

You should also consider that some of the rough areas are structurally sound and will not be visible when the job is finished.

thats just it, the top rows and mortar round the rafters is so big that its practically falling off (in fact some of the bricks are !)
towards the peak there are actually a couple of bricks with no mortar between the horizontal joint!

 

[kinkyken]

this is the builders second attempt at this front and back... on day rate by the way.. approx 6 days on day rate to build peak up on top of the existing single level garage wall which seemed a bit excessive to me considering I had all the squints done myself and supplied everything.
as said I am trying to be fair and not trying to get out of paying for acceptable work, but also not wanting to pay for something that I have to pay to have put right again..

 

[noseall]

Any visible brickwork needs to be finished to an acceptable standard. Neat pointed joints, plumb and level, no smudges etc.

A pro brickie should be able to achieve this standard with his eyes closed. You are correct in not accepting any visible masonry that is not tidy.

However to demand that any hidden masonry be finished to the same visual standards would be unrealistic. There are many instances for example, where masonry that is hidden i.e. panels of wall behind lean-to roofs, is usually built from un-pointed blockwork.

It would be financially idiotic to demand anything otherwise.

 

[kinkyken]

Any visible brickwork needs to be finished to an acceptable standard. Neat pointed joints, plumb and level, no smudges etc.

A pro brickie should be able to achieve this standard with his eyes closed. You are correct in not accepting any visible masonry that is not tidy.

However to demand that any hidden masonry be finished to the same visual standards would be unrealistic. There are many instances for example, where masonry that is hidden i.e. panels of wall behind lean-to roofs, is usually built from un-pointed blockwork.

It would be financially idiotic to demand anything otherwise.

So do you think after looking at the photographs that the loose brickwork and ammount of mortar round the joists is acceptable ?... surely mortar isnt a suitable substitute for brickwork to that extent otherwise we would be building houses from just mortar... I could understand maybe an inch round the sides of the joists and a decent bed below, but not 2-3inches below and full bricks worth round?

 

[^woody^]

I would not be overly concerned with the cut up or gobbing up as it is not seen. But those bricks sticking out on the inside near the rafter should be relaid flush and plumb

In the last picture, the return is a bit dodgy with uneven bed joints, but its not clear why this is like it - if access was a problem and the brickie had to reach around that tree or scaffold, then it may be a consequence of that.

Generally its not too bad. And if it is structurally sound then the quality is subjective

Whether its worth top rates of pay, or whether in context of the rest of the property or properties it looks bad, is open to interpretation

Obviously we are only getting one side of the story and a few select images. Would the brickie have a different point of view and reason for it being like that?

You may get lots of different points of view on here, and TBH, you may well only pick those that support your own view.

If the work is considered in light of standards such as BS5628 or the BDA guide to brickwork, then it may not meet them. But everything has a context and not meeting a standard does not automatically make the work unacceptable or unsatisfactory

But if you're not happy then you need to negotiate something so that you are happy - either by correcting work, paying less, or altering your expectations

 

[kinkyken]

he was working from scaffold for the whole of the back section, initially he cut the bricks too low and all the rafters were sitting about 1 inch to and inch and a half low so he was allowed to redo.. after I marked up the correct height. He was told that the bricks required replacing. He didnt replace any, instead just mortared round the whole lot and said it was done.
I know exactly what you mean about it being subjective, it is facing 2 other properties with open verges, both being nice and neat and straight.
All he will say is that its ok and it will all be covered over anyway - not said anything about the bricks literally falling off or being a mile out.
I have offered him another £50, so am only deducting £150 and TBH I think it will cost me more in time bricks and mortar to put it right to a decent standard.

In the last picture its the run on the top up to the peak I am complaining about, its like a rocky mountain road and is meant to be seen as its open eaves

 

[kinkyken]

I would not be overly concerned with the cut up or gobbing up as it is not seen. But those bricks sticking out on the inside near the rafter should be relaid flush and plumb

In the last picture, the return is a bit dodgy with uneven bed joints, but its not clear why this is like it - if access was a problem and the brickie had to reach around that tree or scaffold, then it may be a consequence of that.

Generally its not too bad. And if it is structurally sound then the quality is subjective

Whether its worth top rates of pay, or whether in context of the rest of the property or properties it looks bad, is open to interpretation

Obviously we are only getting one side of the story and a few select images. Would the brickie have a different point of view and reason for it being like that?You may get lots of different points of view on here, and TBH, you may well only pick those that support your own view.

If the work is considered in light of standards such as BS5628 or the BDA guide to brickwork, then it may not meet them. But everything has a context and not meeting a standard does not automatically make the work unacceptable or unsatisfactory

But if you're not happy then you need to negotiate something so that you are happy - either by correcting work, paying less, or altering your expectations

his reasoning for it being a mess like that was " its not easy you know".
I am trade myself (obviously not a brickie though!) if i gave that reason for something looking a mess I wouldnt get paid anything for the whole job.

 

[joe-90]

Tell him to join the modern world and use a grinder.


BTW, Where did your user name come from?

 

[kinkyken]

Tell him to join the modern world and use a grinder.


BTW, Where did your user name come from?

spur of the moment made up when joining