Permitted development & lawful development certificates.

[bongos]

Ok, i'm getting increasingly confused by this situation.

We are wanting to build a single storey rear extension on our 1940's terrace. It will be 4m high at the house end, 3m high at the eaves, 3m deep and span the width of the property.

To me it seems fairly simple that this is is allowed within a permitted development.

However, I keep getting conflicting information about whether to go for a LDC. Personally I would rather not (on time not cost grounds) unless it is looking necessary. From checking and reading every planning thing I can and looking at the Planning Portal there doesn't seem to be an issue.

I thought the point of an LDC was so that you could prove to a solicitor when selling your house that the extension had been built as a "permitted development". But a few things I've read suggest that it is so the council can determine whether it is lawful or not? But it seems blatantly obvious it is. And if it isn't with something as straight forward as this then why do we even have PD?!

My neighbours are not keen on the idea at all and while we've tried to appease them by changing the design a little, there isn't much that can be done about it. I don't want to end up wasting 2 months going for an LDC when it apparently doesn't need one and give them the chance to object and slow things down (even though I can't see that they can object anyway!) I going to go along to speak to the council planning officer tomorrow if I get a chance for a 'pre application' chat with the duty planning officer. But even then I can see them just saying if I want a definitive answer apply for a LDC - and verbal advice is never going to hold up if it needs to anyway!

All this to replace a similar (albeit smaller) conservatory...

Advice and experiences welcome!

TIA

 

[jeds]

If it's within permitted development limits you don't need a LDC. An LDC is only needed for cases where there is some doubt. These cases are very few and yours certainly isn't one of them.

Check that your PD rights are intact - a call to the planning department will settle that. And double check the dimensions. Then crack on.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

As jeds and yourself have mentioned if its PD then its PD an that's that!

That said the solicitors will ask for proof it didn't need PD when you sell and when you get a combination of a nervous buyer and some particularly stupid solicitors it can easily cause hassles during the sale. It should also be mentioned that neighbours can kick up a fuss during the build causing planners to get involved and whilst (if its PD) there is absolutely nothing either can do about it you can still end up getting some crappy letters/hassle.

 

[bongos]

Thanks for ypur replies - appreciated. Will get hold of the council and see what they say.

 

[tony1851]

Thanks for ypur replies - appreciated. Will get hold of the council and see what they say.

....and they will strongly recommend you apply for an LDC, just to get £80-odd from you.

 

[bongos]

Spot on. So I think it's what i'm going to end up doing, despite me not really wanting to.

Though i'm finding the Planning Portal site infuriating! Has anyone else used it? it seems impossible to correctly calculate the fee I need to pay (£86). It says the Planning Portal will calculate it for me but if it's wrong then ring the council! What use is that?! Why can't I just choose the amount I want to pay?

 

[DevilDamo]

However, I keep getting conflicting information about whether to go for a LDC. Personally I would rather not (on time not cost grounds) unless it is looking necessary

Time has nothing to do with it if you're confident your property has PD rights and the extension is designed in accordance with the PD guidelines. If you want to go down the route of submitting a LDC, fill out the form, submit the drawings, pay the £86.00 fee and leave it with them. Unlike a formal Planning application, you do not have to wait until you receive LDC approval before starting works.

If you're still having issues with fee, enjoy a bit of black and white text that lists all the relevant fees...

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/english_application_fees.pdf

An LDC for a proposed use (i.e. for works that have not started), the fee is 50% that of a Householder application so £86.00. An LDC for an existing use (i.e. for works that have started or are complete) then the fee is the full 100%, so £172.00.

 

[bongos]

Thanks for the updates. Im fully happy that the building complies with PD rights and also fully anticipating a visit from the planners when my neighbours complain (because they don't think it does!) so hopefully this will be completed in time for it to be finishing and to allay any issues straight off.

 

[cjard]

And LDC is a formal statement of a council's opinion that the works youre doing are lawful.. As others have said, it can be used for all sorts of things largely related to human/social aspects - two fingers to your neighbours, removing a potential excuse for a fickle buyer

Personally, I think it's a waste of money but you know your neighbours..

 

[SimonH2]

And LDC is a formal statement of a council's opinion that the works youre doing are lawful.

It also means that if they disagree with that, you have the chance to argue before starting work - and settle any differences in advance.

A colleague at work is applying for full planning because the council (I assume verbally as "pre planning advice") have told him it's not PD. I've told him not to - it only give them a chance to impose conditions they couldn't on PD, and charge him more. It's a hip-gable conversion and dormer on the rear - the council have told him he needs planning because it (the hip-gable conversion) changes the roof profile viewed from the road

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

It's a hip-gable conversion and dormer on the rear - the council have told him he needs planning because it (the hip-gable conversion) changes the roof profile viewed from the road

Get him to sign up here and stick a post on and get himself educated.

 

[SimonH2]

He's already signed up here, won't be told though

 

[Cabbyfan]

I'm stubborn lol.

My architect has spoken to BC overseeing my other works and 2 of the planners and they all insist it has to be a full planning.

I could pay £86 or whatever and make an enquiry but I have been told unofficially it will need full application so I'm not going to waste my time enquiring and the planning is going in.

Appreciate some will think its unnecessary, even my architect does but the local authority won't do anything without a fee.

 

[cjard]

Appreciate some will think its unnecessary, even my architect does but the local authority won't do anything without a fee.

So, your architect thinks it's unnecessary and you have the money to pay for an architect..
And you have the money to pay for a full planning app, plus money to throw at whatever conditions are imposed or appeals if it's a refusal
And you have money to actually do the build..

..so what's £86 in the grand scheme of things if you're so desperate to throw your money at the council?

Better watch out that you get a good builder, or one that doesn't see this side of you

I have been told unofficially it will need full application

And if you were told unofficially that they'd be delighted for you to demolish your house in a conservation area and fill your entire plot with a mock taj mahal, would you do it?

 

[Cabbyfan]

More like my architect has had in depth conversations with 2 planners plus opinion from my BC guy as well. On the basis all the bodies from the local authority say planning is needed I can waste 85 on an enquiry then pay another 172 on top or I can just go with the advice I am being given and save time and cost by just putting in the planning as I will ultimately have to anyway.

There are no automatic PD gimmes on hip to gables and in my location the authority are sticking to their interpreting of the rules hence planning is in. It may not be exactly fair but that is what I have to accept.

We have no reason to believe planning will be refused or conditions will be imposed. I have shown both my neighbours the plans before submission with no issues raised.

As for my architect, he charged me just over 700 quid to do full drawings for my hip to gable,rear dormers and kitchen extension, suitable of BC and planning if needed plus his designs hsve saved about half his fee overall by not having steels in some areas as originally thought so he has done a great job as far as I am concerned.

Building wise I will be doing the majority of the work myself and I work and have worked in a commercial sales environment for over 15 years so I'm pretty commercially savvy thanks.