could someone tell me whats not allowed

[studentspark]

In zone one of a bathroom.
It seems if its permanently connected, IPX5 it OK

Dual fuel towel radiator, -in- the shower cubical
sussex range Ashdown 620

Big metal electric heater in the shower, can't be right can it?

No RCD, installed 5 years ago

 

[EFLImpudence]

In zone one of a bathroom.
It seems if its permanently connected, IPX5 it OK

IPX4 is enough.

Dual fuel towel radiator, -in- the shower cubical
sussex range Ashdown 620

If IPX4 but you wouldn't want it in zone 1, would you?

Big metal electric heater in the shower, can't be right can it?

If IPX4 but you wouldn't want it in zone 1, would you?

No RCD, installed 5 years ago

New equipment will need an RCD.

 

[studentspark]

Thanks EFL

Could I ask if you could be a bit more specific

I don't like it but is it against the regs. I find it hard to find a clear answer

 

[securespark]

All the elements I have seen are IPX2.

So, I would say not.

BUT, what do the mfrs instructions say?

It hinges on what zone the manufacturers say you can install it in.

 

[studentspark]

Thanks
I have been looking on their website but it does not say much. Apart from the IP rating x4 or x5
No installation guide as far as I can see.

 

[securespark]

Where I'm looking, it's quite specific: IP55 for the fixed element and IP54 for the variable one.

http://www.sussexrange.co.uk/radiators-heated-towel-rails/ashdown-range/

I'll look out for an installation guide.

EDIT: Can't find one but here is the CONTACT US page.

http://www.sussexrange.co.uk/contact/

They are sure to help.

P18 of their pdf catalogue has a picture of a towel rail that appears to be in Z1. Whether it is electrically heated or not, I can't tell.

http://www.sussexrange.co.uk/downloads/sussex-range-price-2012.pdf

 

[EFLImpudence]

In zone one of a bathroom.

Are you actually meaning zone 1 ? - that's directly above the shower tray.

It seems an odd place for a towel rail let alone a heater.

 

[studentspark]

yes its in the cubical.

I dont like it, they spent a lot getting the bathroom done, so I don't want to say should be disconnected if its technically ok. Even though I think it unsuitable, and potentially dangerous

 

[securespark]

It does indeed!

But given the element is a minimum of IP54, possibly IP55, is it within regulations?

 

[studentspark]

Re towel rail in shower cubical

You may be interested in the reply I got from the company who make these towel rails.

Basically I was told by the first person I spoke to that they can not tell me where it is OK to put the rail as they are not electricians.

When I said that they must have an opinion as they make it, I was put on to somebody else who talked about RCD's and Supplementary Bonding, but when I pressed about zones, he could not answer.

I find it quite unbelievable that a company can manufacture electrical equipment, but not understand the importance of placement.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

As already stated, you can have shower rails in zone 1, but they must be at least X4.

 

[Taylortwocities]

OK guys.
Lets go an look in some books, and other references.
Now, I am not always right (!) and like to be educated.
But here's the griff according to TTC.

First of all, let's look at what the requirements are in zone 1.........

Zone 1

Equipment to be IPX4 minimum, IPX5 if water jets are used for cleaning.
Current using equipment may be installed providing it is 25V AC (RMS) maximum or 60V DC SLEV or PELV, the source being installed outside the zones. Items such as whirlpool units, showers, pumps, fans, towel rails, water heaters and light fittings may also be installed, see the manufacturers instructions.
Only switchgear with a maximum 12V AC RMS or 30V DC SELV may be installed, the source being outside the zones. This doesn't apply to switches inside current using equipment.

Couldn't be clearer, hey?

Well, in the true IET way you have first to determine what an item of "current using equipment" is. BS7671 tells us (in definitions) that current using equipment converts electricity into another form of energy. Like heat for our towel radiator element.

This leads us to another question
What sort of equipment is there that is non-curent using?
That will be stuff like switches and fused connection units.

Looks like we are on the trail to an answer then.
I wonder which section of BS7671 deals with bathrooms & showers....701!

Oh look, theres a handy paragraph titled " 701.55 Current-using equipment"
Lets look down the list. Hmm, can't see televisions, no sign of hair dryers.
But wait, here, under Zone 1
it sayeth that you can install a towel rail in Zone 1, providing that the IP stuff is met......
and it is suitable for use in Zone 1 and installed according to the maker's instructions.

So, that's it kids. Nothing else to see here.
IP X4, RCD protected Towel rail element is allowed. No problems, end of story. No more discussion needed.

Here's mine (IP55)
View media item 50952 View media item 50953

 

[studentspark]

If it was not RCD protected would you still feel the same?

An RCD provides additional protection.
Is there a doubt that with out that additional protection, it may be unsafe?

Is its IP rating enough to convince you its safe.

To me IP ratings are to protect from stuff getting in, not stuff (electricity) getting out.

Two points about my original post

Its not RCD Protected

The Manufacturers offer no instructions