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Help needed with a mitre saw blade choice


 
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aveatry

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:20 am Reply with quote

I have a Ryobi EMS2026SCL sliding mitre saw that takes 254mm blades. I have a bosch 80teeth 2608640450 -box says 5degree negative and has one tooth square top and the next tooth round top. The problem is that I do not find the cut with this blade any finer than my standard Ryobi 40tooth that came with the saw. The other problem with this saw is that it is rubbish at collecting the dust - hardly any gets in the bag. The bosch blade has a 3.5mm kerf and produces a lot of dust and because of its thickness and weight gives a nasty yank when it starts (the saw does not have soft start).
In comparison I also have a workx hand held circular saw that has a 1.8mm kerf with 24 teeth that gives perfect cuts with hardly any dust or breakout.
I have a lot of engineered 18mm oak floor to lay and then oak veneered mdf skirting boards.
I think that I will get on much better with the thinnest kerf blade I can find in my Ryobi as I love the action of the thin kerf blade in my hand held workx one as it just seems to slip effertlesly through wood.
So can anyone help me with what blade should I be getting - im guessing that I may well need one for the floor and one for the skirting
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foxhole

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:41 am Reply with quote

Problem is the poor quality ryobi saw, the kick you get on start up is probably power surge on the poor quality motor and the poor cut is probably due to wobble on the blade mount.
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JobAndKnock

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:36 pm Reply with quote

Best way I've found to deal with laminate flooring is to use a jigsaw with the appropriate laminate blades (Bosch "F" type, e.g. T101BIF/T101AOF/T101BRF, etc) for odd shapes, cut-outs, etc and to have a laminate guillotine for cutting flooring pieces to length. The guillotine generates no dust, the jigsaw very little. Every time I tried using a mitre saw in the past I found that even specialist laminate blades didn't last all that long and yes, they did create a lot of dust. Haven't found a mitre saw yet which was all that good at dust extraction. Low cost guillotines can be had from 25 or so upwards - Google "laminate floor cutter" to find them
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aveatry

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:55 pm Reply with quote

JobAndKnock wrote:
Best way I've found to deal with laminate flooring is to use a jigsaw with the appropriate laminate blades (Bosch "F" type, e.g. T101BIF/T101AOF/T101BRF, etc) for odd shapes, cut-outs, etc and to have a laminate guillotine for cutting flooring pieces to length. The guillotine generates no dust, the jigsaw very little. Every time I tried using a mitre saw in the past I found that even specialist laminate blades didn't last all that long and yes, they did create a lot of dust. Haven't found a mitre saw yet which was all that good at dust extraction. Low cost guillotines can be had from 25 or so upwards - Google "laminate floor cutter" to find them
Thanks for your help and experiance but------------- "I have a lot of engineered 18mm oak floor to lay and then oak veneered mdf skirting boards"
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JobAndKnock

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:33 pm Reply with quote

Actually my guillotine (Magnum) will cut engineered flooring, and that stuff is still pretty hard on mitre saw blades because of the huge glue content. That's one reason some trade floor layers I work with resort to guillotines or rail saws such as the Festool rather than using a mitre saw. When you do use a mitre saw it needs to be rigid enough to withstand the cutting forces - thin blades and cheap saws always flex and give a poor quality of cut in my experience.

If you want to try an alternative blade then you might have a look at the Dart range of sawblades. They do thin kerf 254mm ATB sawblades which work well on my Makita saws - but then I'm not trying to cut engineered oak on them. Veneered MDF in any case requires a different blade to engineered flooring, which is more akin to cutting plywood

The dust issue is a problem with ALL mitre saws regardless. The fact that you say "hardly any gets in the bag" tells me that you aren't using a vacuum cleaner attached to the saw. Attach a vacuum cleaner - which helps greatly - but don't expect the dust problem to go away unless you want to flash out 1000 for a Festool Kapex mitre saw
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aveatry

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:08 am Reply with quote

I love the guillotine idea but I can only find ones for lamanate floor. Unless I want to spend 100s for somthing that will cut 18mm engineered oak.
You know what I am thinking ---- just do it by hand with a new irwin Jack handsaw for 8 - thin cut less dust - less noise and what dust there is is in a little heap eitherside of the saw - I get a sweat on - get fitter- wife thinks I working hard---win---win --win
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maltaron

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:58 pm Reply with quote

Why does everyone seem to want power tools for every job. I always use a properly sharpened Disston panel saw, but as these are hard to find and even harder to find someone to sharpen them, a new plastic hard point should be OK.
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aveatry

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:17 pm Reply with quote

You are right but I think i will geta metal one tho
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JobAndKnock

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:45 pm Reply with quote

maltaron wrote:
Why does everyone seem to want power tools for every job?

A tool should be an extension of your arm, so for a tradesman a power tool speeds things up a lot making the job nore profitable, or at least meaning that he/she can take on a job which would previously have been impossible to achieve either economically or with hand tools (for me that's many of the tasks I perform with a Fein Multitool, for example). For DIYers/amateur wood workers I think the urge is different - many power tools deskill tasks, so a power mitre saw makes it much easier for an irregular woodworker to make a clean, accurate mitre cut than they would have been able to achieve with a hand saw and mitre block (and there's a current post elsewhere about just that). Acquiring skill and accuracy with any hand tool takes time and patience, as well as a good mentor in an ideal world.

maltaron wrote:
I always use a properly sharpened Disston panel saw, but as these are hard to find and even harder to find someone to sharpen them, a new plastic hard point should be OK.

Lucky you! But if you were really competent with the saw you'd be able to sharpen and set your own - that was always part of the skill of using a hand saw. icon_lol.gif On engineered timber products I've found that laminate blades often work better than fine tooth blades both in machines and hand tools, but every circumstance is slightly different so I tend to adjust my approach as needs arise. Obviously if I were only installing a small quantity I wouldn't bother getting the power tools out of the van and I'd probably start with either a fine tooth hardpoint or a "laminator" saw, but for larger jobs it is generally time and cost effective to get the toys out as well as delivering a better finish 90% of the time. And in any case every tradesman i know loves his power toots..... I mean power tools
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maltaron

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:43 pm Reply with quote

For your info I do sharpen and set my own saws. There is still a problem finding good sawfiles but luckily I have a good local supplier (who can also get Disstons recut). I served my apprenticeship shortly after WW2 so had the opportunity to learn the trade under skilled craftsmen who considered it a pleasure to create another skilled craftsman.
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